I was asked today if there is any VMS that can manage over 200k cameras and thousands of users in a single instance (not federated)?
Do you know of any?
Merry Xmas
I was asked today if there is any VMS that can manage over 200k cameras and thousands of users in a single instance (not federated)?
Do you know of any?
Merry Xmas
Are all the cameras running at QCIF and 1 FPS?
Otherwise, no.
#1, what do you mean by 'a single instance'? Does that mean all cameras recording on a single server or? I assume you don't but it appears to be interpreted that way. Can you clarify what you are looking for?
Also, I would not put this in a binary 'yes' or 'no' response when it comes to a VMS managing tens of thousands of cameras across hundreds of servers. Some VMSes will work better or worse on certain features (where scaling has a bigger impact, i.e., searching across all cameras, etc.).
Hi John,
I was refering to the whole system capacity not a single recorder.
Is there a limit to the number of NVRs and channels a single VMS can manage?
i assume federation will hit some limit as well
Example,
Avigilon can handle 30000 cameras per site
meaning 100 servers with 300 cameras each
Ok thats is good scale but not near 200k.
How much can Genetec and Mileston can scale without federation for example?
i know March has some large installs in major banks. I bet those needs to be over 100k camera systems (unless they are distributed)
I bet those needs to be over 100k camera systems (unless they are distributed)
What do you mean unless they are distributed? Banks, by definitions, are going to have recorders in various places. Are you treating 'distributed' different than 'centralized'? If so, how do you define those terms?
Banks usually utilize distributed recording. When I said distributed I meant many standalone VMS compare to a centrelized management with distributed DVR/NVR in the branchs.
Banks usually utilize distributed recording. When I said distributed I meant many standalone VMS compare to a centrelized management with distributed DVR/NVR in the branchs.
I don't see your distinction. Whether the VMS software is in an appliance (like a DVR / NVR) or it is running on COTS hardware, VMS / NVRs typically have enterprise management capabilities on 'top' of the server / recorders.
In particular, it's possible to have 'many standalone VMS' but more typically you have enterprise management capabilities that manage / control the 'individual' VMS instances.
Think YouTube. It’s a video service with millions of video inputs and sources, many source types and viewed based on subscriptions and permissions by millions.
"Think of YouTube!"
Sure,
Google has about one million servers around the world
Thanks. However I am looking for on-prem VMS for security not entertainment
Milestone did a simulation using 1 million streams and their high end main frame servers a few years ago.
As others have said, where would you install that many cameras and users in a single installation?
In general, you want to see how a real 100,000 camera VMS system works.
At some (generally trivial) level, they are all 'unlimited', in the system that computers can hold millions of records (whether that is records of cameras or motion events or recording schedules, etc.).
The practical problem comes in with latency, reliability, etc.
For example, with 200,000 cameras, depending on how the system is designed and implemented, it might take 100 seconds or 10 minutes to return the results to a basic query. In such situations, it might 'work' but it would not work well enough to satisfy most users.
Another example would be making changes. When you are dealing with so many cameras, a functionality that works manually (enter in information X one by one) may be untenable with hundreds of thousands of cameras. A vendor might say "Sure, just enter it one at a time 200,000 times", that VMS 'can' do it but pretty terrible, while another system may implement automation tactics to significantly reduce the time and error involved.
So to your question:
any VMS that can manage
I think most would argue that they 'can' but how well they actually do is hard to determine unless they have real installations at those scales. In my experience, typically really big installs have 'weird' problems that only are uncovered at scale and are generally not publicly promoted, as it is not in the interest of either the VMS nor customer.
who has 200K cameras in one physical location?
My problem is with the 'not federated' clarifier.
This is what federated architecture is designed for...
lol... the video link I used was intended to show that 200K cameras are never - and would never be - hosted on one server.
It was the title of the video - not it's current technical validity - that caused me to choose it.
That's an open ended question, and so an open ended "Yes" is my best response.
You seem a bit all over the place with your question and responses such as federation. I think you feel federation means beyond one building/location, but theres a lot more here. Are you asking what software can manage that many feeds on one site? What about storage, redundancy, server physical size and heat output??
Clint, I think you are on to something.... and I think that John H has also tried to break down exactly what the issue actually is. But more is required from the OP.
As I, and others, have already posted - and I think many others reading understand - federated architecture is specifically designed to take on the challenge of multi-site operational management of huge numbers of video feeds (from whatever sources).
I - along with others apparently - do not understand the requirements from the OP....
without a firmer understanding of the actual requirements for the OPs application it is impossible to be helpful.
Think of a federal org or a national/international company that has offices in all major city in each state (e.g. remote location) and like to manage all cameras from a single enterprise server (central site). Not just view which can be done cia PISM like applications.
The central site is the one that needs to manage all 200k+ camera and manage user access for monitoring and investigation.
Simple, change the way your indexing access to the stream. The VMS is irrelevant at that level.
I will suggest that large systems will need an Alexa like HMI to interface with a large database.
Think of driver licenses, do you think they type in your name? John Doe, then have to filter 1.4 million results?
There is an easier way to interface, not going to say exactly how it's done but enough information is given for at least one of the layers.
If you stay in the old frame of mind, good luck stacking a bunch of hardware.
Of course it can. Too many DVR people think of a 'system' being a DVR. It's not, a system is the whole shebang. It's a bunch of smaller systems combined into single login. Don't understand what the big deal is?
And don't ever compare video surveillance with YouTube. YouTube sends the same video to thousands, millions of people (streaming service). Surveillance seldom ever works that way.
Sounds like an interesting project. From my perspective, I would contact Milestone pre-sales in your region, and see what they say.
Indigo Vision VMS platform can do it easily as it doesn't have central server, therefor no bottleneck there. Also their NVRs are the biggest in the market (biggest one 600ch with 1.5PB storage). Unlimited number of NVRs and users in the system and beautiful thing is those instances doesn't require any license at all. Even for redundant NVRs, you just need the device itself. Only license that IV is asking for is per camera in the system + SUP.
Main concern here would be to design proper IP network which can handle such amount of video streams. So Cisco or Juniper would be my recommendation with proper deign like access and aggregation level switches.
I work on a Federated FLIR Latitude system of nearly 20K cameras every day. Anything is possible, but as Clint quite rightly states, Network, Storage, Heat/Cooling, etc etc are major factors. Redundancy for me is a hot mirror site/DR so I'm already recording circa 40K streams!
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