Subscriber Discussion

How Far Out Are You Booked For Installations?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 21, 2018

Looking for an honest assessment from other integrators.

All reports say the economy is going gangbusters, but our story is showing reduced leadflow and a shortening of our installation backlog. We normally book out around 3 weeks, but for the last few months we have barely been able to book the following week. This will be the first year we will post a lower revenue than the previous year, and due to no change in overhead will likely post a loss. Looking to hear from everyone else without posturing or bravado, just to get an idea of how everyone else is doing. Is my business broken or is the economy not as good as it appears? Or something else?

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Sean Patton
Sep 21, 2018

What region (US NE, SW, Europe, etc) are you in, and what markets do you typically serve? Are there outside factors (weather, local economic concerns, population shrinking, etc) that could be impacting available opportunities? Does your integration rely on net-new customers? It sounds like you may not have a solid base of recurring revenue from your existing customers, through maintenance contracts, SMAs, etc. 

I'm not trying to be too pessimistic, but as you mention, with a growing economy and a growing surveillance market, if your business was even at the same revenue as previous year's, that is a sign that something is broken.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 21, 2018

US, Midwest.

Historically have brought in net new. fair amount of repeat business. RMR is about 10% of revenue.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Sep 21, 2018

Your region is quite important.  Here in Seattle, customers contact 5-7 vendors and are lucky if they get 1-2 answers.  Seattle has been booming for quite a while (not sure of the stats most likely top 3 in the nation).

Install backlog here is 6 weeks.

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Brian Rhodes
Sep 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

The verticals integrators service can affect this too.  The US Government fiscal year (2018) ends in a couple of weeks, so a lot of budgets are sucking wind right now.

Schools are getting back in session, so they aren't really spending money on capital projects with class room and hallways full of kids.  But the holiday breaks/ Spring Break  '19 windows are still on the horizon.

Being an integrator can seem feast or famine many months.    Either you're starving, or you're drinking from the firehose.  

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 21, 2018

No Schools or Gov work.

We do alot in manufacturing and logistics.

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JH
Jay Hobdy
Sep 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

We are booked about 6 weeks out right now, possibly longer. I haven't put everything on the calendar. I finally hired a 3rd guy.

 

We are a small startup, almost 2 years old. I guess soon I won't be a startup. We do a lot of marketing and we focus on a vertical that has multiple locations and are always acquiring new locations. Since we are small, this may not be an accurate measurement.

 

What size projects are you doing? What verticals? Any suspicions on why the pipeline is dry?

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 21, 2018

typical projects are 40-120 hours, manufacturing, logistics, big box buildings starting from scratch is our most common, though we do anything commercial or industrial.

 

Pipeline looks good, but long list of pendings with nothing real popping for the last few months.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Sep 21, 2018

The market here in Seattle for techs/installers is booming.  $35/hour is too low, near 30 current techs and can't find anymore. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #10
Oct 02, 2018

Curious about the pay for your techs @$35 per hour... is this because they are licensed/certified or just experienced?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Oct 02, 2018

Some are, some aren't.  But really at this point there is a tremendous shortage of techs in general and they hold alot of leverage right now.  Of course, the growth here won't continue at its torrid pace.  It's crazy the amount of other company trucks in competitors parking lots interviewing going for highest bidder basically.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Sep 24, 2018

We have hit an odd slump starting mid-August.  It is week to week right now.  There are large projects on the backlog but many are a couple months from starting due to construction.

Our demographic: Midwest and primarily servicing automotive, industrial, utility, and multi-tenant retail spaces with surveillance and access control.  We do not touch educational or government work.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 25, 2018

eerily similar experience

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Sep 25, 2018

You don't consider utility government work?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Sep 25, 2018

No, while the government has influence they are not our source of funding.  We do not “bid” work.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Sep 24, 2018

We're a small (or midsize, depending on your point of view) shop of about 2 dozen people in the Southteast, commercial only. We're about 4 weeks out right now. Some municipal contracts have done really well for us, even though the margin is low. But we expect to see another year over year increase for past 5 years.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Sep 24, 2018

For medium-sized projects, we are out about a month right now. Residential we are still doing same day since our business model allows for that. We've brought more accounts online this year than any other year in our companies history. 

60% of our business is retail and manufacturing. This side of our business is growing but not as fast as our residential side. 

We had to make some major changes to our business model to see this growth this year. I can say with confidence if we had kept doing what we were doing for the last 30 years we would not have seen the growth we saw this year. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 25, 2018

Do you mind sharing a 10k foot view of those changes?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Sep 25, 2018

We stopped thinking/acting like an alarm company. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Sep 25, 2018

Were you the same person who posted awhile back on here lamenting what to do about their suffering alarm business?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Sep 25, 2018

I’m not sure what you’re referring too. I don’t recall ever lamenting on here. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Sep 25, 2018

Then you're not the same person I was thinking of, sorry for the confusion. You're story about doing things differently sounded similar to another thread I was reading.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Sep 25, 2018

Earlier this year, we had too many projects on the burner for this summer/fall season. 

Our largest customer, a public funded non profit hit cash flow problems and the yearly budget got axed. They still have some new construction/smaller projects, but they cut nearly six figures out for the year. 

Our next largest client has yet to pull the trigger on a multi site install that was slated for early summer, but is way behind on the approval process. Seems as if it may be due to cash flow as well? They were very eager early on. 

And another restaurant chain has been kicking the can for six months now. Was only a $30k project, but they asked us for a strict install timeframe, so we have kept them penciled in to accommodate, but it’s still not a done deal.

Since we /had/ a bunch of projects upcoming, I decided to pass on some smaller jobs earlier this year. That is looking like a bad decision now. 

Moral of the story, take the work in front of you today. Pipe dreams don’t pay bills. The beginning of the year was unicorns farting rainbows, but it really just looks like horseshit now. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Sep 26, 2018

My previous employer would always tell me I have this closing and that closing, etc. Maybe 50% went the way he expected and I always had to scramble to get a project going at the last moment. They are no longer in business.

 

I do not consider a project won until we have a signed contract. I do not even consider it for production. I do sometimes look at the overall sales pipeline and say if only 20% come through, what then?

 

I don't order any materials or schedule until I have a deposit check in hand.

 

Until then it's just unicorns...

 

We have some clients that acquire a new property and think we can be there next week. I have to explain 3-4 weeks out is my comfort zone. I have techs and their families that rely on me to make sure they work and get paid. We have ups and downs. I have clients that sit on proposals for 6 months then out of the blue call and says, let's start next week. and I have to ensure we have enough work in the pipeline to keep everyone working. Once I explain it like that, they understand.

 

Right now we are extremely busy, but we are small, in our 2nd year and maybe will hit 1M this year. So throw a few projects totaling 75k at us and that puts a strain on us.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 28, 2018

How many people on payroll at that revenue including techs? One of my concerns is I'm overstaffed.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Sep 28, 2018

1 recently added F/T service tech who will be the go to tech for client/installer support. He will be the lead geek...

2 Installers

1 helper just hired.

1 recently added P/T office manager

very P/T marketing person who arranges trade shows, social media, email campaigns, etc

 

And me.

 

Once these new hires settle in, this should allow me to focus on marketing, sales etc.

 

 

Since we are still new, I drop everything into marketing and preparing for the future. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 28, 2018

This is similar to what we have seen. We didnt pass on anything, but we have more in our pipeline at the moment than at any other point in history, but none of it is popping, its all sitting there waiting, and the phone isnt really ringing with new opportunities, even small ones.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Sep 26, 2018

Couple of random thoughts: I'm in the SouthEast and it's much slower for us.  The worst part is the price deflation in video.  It's essentially all labor now and that's the tough part. 

I'm reminded of another industry story, a local restaurant owner made a bunch of money and sold his restaurant and got into building cell towers about 20 years ago.  Now he wants back in the restaurant business.  I'm assuming the build out got mostly done and there's just not much going on right now.  Somewhat similar in surveillance. Go-go years early 2000's when digital recording became the norm and prices were sky high.  Now it's primarily upgrades and new construction.  Couple that with price deflation and you have to shrink your footprint in terms of geographic area served.  We used to drive up to 200 miles for a job. Not any more.

In 2011, we had one of our largest revenue years due largely to a couple of large jobs, $250k + to correctional facilities.  I subbed out the cabling to one of those jobs and paid them handsomely because we were booked up installing the first one.  Cameras were $400-$600 each or more with PTZ's, Dell Servers, Racks, Software licenses etc.  Those days were good. 

Amazon: had a school principal ask me to come out and spec a system upgrade.  He's 100 miles from anywhere but referred by a good customer so I had to at least go by.  Large school building about 12 cameras, he wants 16-20 and wants it done more professionally. During the walkthrough he confides that the previous vendor quoted him $8500 but he checked prices on Amazon and could buy hardware for $1500.  See last sentence of 1st paragraph....

 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Sep 26, 2018

During the walkthrough he confides that the previous vendor quoted him $8500 but he checked prices on Amazon and could buy hardware for $1500. See last sentence of 1st paragraph....

Brings to mind what I saw someone on another forum mention as a customer who knew the price of everything but the value of nothing. But you have to know how and be willing to teach that value. The principal is just doing his due diligence. There should be plenty of news out now why most of those products from... let's just say from questionable countries of origin, are more liability than value. And that is why they should invest in more reputable equipment from reputable companies. It's only not possible if you are selling the same questionable products from the same questionable countries of origin.

But if you have a customer who is insistent on price alone, you'll never win that battle, and you'll never make any money being the lowest bidder. If he is insistent on a $1500 complete system, let them buy it off Amazon and let some Craigslisters or the students put it in. And if that market decides they are happy with that, then don't go after that market. You have to find the markets that still value quality and professionalism with the money to spend on it. And not every integrator is going to be able to do that, and plenty are going to go out of business trying to compete on pricing. The market is ever changing and opportunities shrink and grow with them. 

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Jon Dillabaugh
Sep 26, 2018
Pro Focus LLC

Agreed. If they are already set on buying a box kit level product, you won’t likely convince them otherwise. My best attempt would be to give them an A vs B live demo. Install one camera and DVR that matches their $1500 level and then bring your proposed models and do a head to head challenge. Pick a fair example, but something that will show where your product can excel. Show the difference in outdoor, low light areas. Show how much easier the investigations and export would be. 

I really thing that is your only way to convince them otherwise. It has to be valuable in the eyes of the person calling the shots. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 28, 2018

One of my successes this year was converting a legacy client over to a new VMS by letting him use it for a month at one of his sites. We have 25 quotes out for the other locations, they are all about the conversion, but not pulling the trigger unless something happens at a particular site. Very strange behavior, and not limited to this one client.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Sep 28, 2018

Two things there, Int #1, based on my experience and speculation.

1. Don't always assume the enthusiasm you get from one influencer is shared by all. Even if it's executive management, they can seem all gung ho when you're talking to them, but when it comes time to for them to sign the dotted line at their desk, it can be another matter.

2. Video is not like other systems. An antiquated payroll system is felt almost every day. An antiquated network is felt almost every day. And antiquated ISP connection is felt almost every day. An antiquated VMS is not always felt the same way, and you can get everyone on the customer's side to agree they need a new system, but actually pulling the trigger on one usually takes an event as it tends to be more reactionary than proactive.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #9
Oct 01, 2018

Within our sector in the UK (Grade A fit-outs City Of London), any lead time is a luxury. Typically the $400k job range will have been tendered and the security specialist engaged at a very late stage (PO received). The electrical contractors will expect you on site within a week or so to first fix and the whole program is dictated, so any thought of lead time or our program goes out of the window. It's the nature of the beast which you can either bitch about or work with. The reality is that first fix isn't a show stopper and we are able to mobilize pretty quickly using sub-contracted labour - the bigger issue is that the design won't have been developed since tender so once engaged - it's like re-inventing the wheel because the consultants will only have cut and pasted the spec, leaving the integrator to redesign from the ground up in days. But that's what makes us who we are and why we can say we are a professional integrator, but it would be so much better if we were engaged from the prime contract award and a consultant actually did their job for a change. The one thing that is universally true is NEVER to think that a consultant actually knows what they are talking about and has actually done any work at all in developing a specification. They never check the door types, ceiling types, client/landlord splits, comms room BTU or any tempest threat to the installed primary cable routes. Hey ho....

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RT
Roger Tyson
Oct 01, 2018

Currently were full for the next six weeks. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #11
Oct 02, 2018

We are approaching 90 days out...please send help!

Seriously though, if anyone is available for prevailing wage work in the NYC area please PM me.

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