"The Company The Industry Always Feared Would Arrive" Is Here

Totally agree.

Fixed.

Agreed. We've done this model before. IP cams are making things somewhat easier, but there is a reason that full blown video surveillance systems have never taken off in the residential market. That being said, some industry analysts predict that 1 in 5 homeonwers wants to add a camera to their home within the next year. Someone is going to help them. Hopefully it is us, and hopefully you guys grab some of that coming revenue. If the markets start to change, meet the change and take the revenue and profits that come with the expanding arena.

We're creating the alternative to trunk slammers. The trunk slammers and cable pullers already exist. We're doing the opposite. We're leaning in to the professionals to secure the business. Cable pullers and trunk slammers will never meet the criteria. We want to be the answer to the industry plague of trunk slammers.

I tend to agree.

In the early 2000's I was at another startup that was at the forefront (a little too early...) for the networked DVR concept. We had a media server device that could hold MP3's, record TV shows (like a Tivo), and act as a home gateway/router. Plus a few other things (caller ID overlay on TV, IM on TV so you could "watch" a show with friends).

We did a few beta programs with Sears, Rogers cable, and Speakeasy (the ISP), and installed probably 250 boxes in the US and Canada, from Seattle to Dallas to Toronto and places in between.

Some jobs we could be in and out in 2 hours (running RG6 to a couple of rooms and reconfiguring DSL router or cable modem settings), and other houses took 2 days to complete. Even in the same neighborhood it was a crapshoot house to house how long it would take.

I think the flat-rate install concept is compelling. People like knowing how much stuff will cost up front, and many homeowners are likely to be afraid of wiring up even a simple plug-n-play system. But given where component pricing is today, you could probably sell these systems for $2899 installed and everyone would make enough money to stay interested in doing more business.

I totally agree with you..Even if job gets done within a day and after providing training to the end users, they are not going to pay attention to the training at first go. There will be another call and until they are not satisfied with the knowing of system (May that be in 2 to 3 visits), no guarantee on your payment!

Country like USA still have laws to protect vendors for such defaulters, but from where we work, as the saying goes "Customer is King" is embedded in the DNA here....They will find any excuse to not pay. i.e., Camera not clear, This not what I expected, Recording clarity is hopeless, etc....

Nelly's Rocks!

Not to mention the installer assumes all the risk for little reward. Not a great business model.

We'll have a good profile of the work before we send it over to you.

If you run into a fortress, no one can force you to follow through. Then the question becomes, does Vigilant hold it against you if you don't complete the job unless you are able to document why the job cannot be reasonably done for the money? Ie. Half the cameras more than 300ft away, multiple firewalls to break through, 3 cameras require a lift, etc.

Would Vigilant's position be, "Well, you will make out good on some installs, not as good on others, so it should wash in the end, so if you don't complete this job, we'll put you on probation or drop you from our roster".... ?

Amazon was one of the first national customers for us when we launched the consumer electronics installation network.

The problem with what they are doing now is they don't have national coverage for security with credentialed experts (not even close) they don't have true price transparency. For the most part, they're using consumer electronics installers to "run cables" and eventually that will catch up to them. Another downside to some of the existing programs is lack of an option for a customer paid site survey (100% of the proceeds passed through US Install directly to the installer). We can solve a lot of problems on the front side with a customer paid site visit, and we vet that out in the initial customer intake.

We'll end up with that business (or competing business) and be unapologetic about the price delta. The discussion we are having with retailers is about the difference (both quality wise and legally) between existing install networks and what we are doing in the professional arena.

The companies doing the sub $1k 8 camera jobs for Amazon currently come from within the installer base of consumer electronics installers. It's a disaster waiting for the perfect storm.

Some of that may come our way, and we'd need people like you to make it happen. Even when stuff is WAY over our head, it still would be nice to be able to send it to you.

Circuit's FireDog could never fix what plagued Circuit. We were actually an installer for Circuit on a regional basis, filling in where they had gaps in coverage.

Wal-Mart is still doing installations, now with NEW who owns the company that I started. The installation offering you are referring to was the company I started and then sold, and it's still exists in Wal-Mart today (although not profitable). It was commoditized by Wal-Mart and NEW, specifically NEW offered it to them to insulate their real business (selling warranties).

We'll serve up the scope of work. I understand you passing if I send you something unprofitable, but I am surprised you would pass before you even know what we have, even job by job... unless you don't have the extra bandwidth (understandable). Also totally get it if your business model and expansion doesn't want this type of commoditized/homogenized work.

I do think in some markets there will be some aberrations. It was easier in consumer electronics to serve up a flat rate job than it is in video surveillance, for sure. However, if we keep things towards the higher end on the sliding scale, we know there will be some cost averaging. If I send you eight great jobs, one mediocre job, and one shitty job, hopefully they all end up making sense for you. We have in the past dealt with the exceptions separately. If the exceptions end up being every job, we have trouble. :-)

Experience says that there are some great ones, some decent ones, and some shitty ones. Our job is to flush as much of the shitty ones out on the front side, identify the aberrations, and treat them as such.

But you are totally right.

I was talking with a Sam's Club executive about the old days of "wireless" CCTV systems. While it is better now than it was then, we're still a long way from flawless. Most of our commercial/business installations will still be wired, but PoE making that an easier proposition even now than it was.

But I agree.

I think your comment is a little harsh.

In the same comment you're referring to, he said:

Our business will probably be slanted more towards small business than residential, but the residential business is forecasted to be pretty strong and we want it where we can get it, and get it profitably for all involved.

From my interpretation he sees the residential market as having a lot of opportunity in terms of raw growth potential, but expects more overall business from small commercial customers.

He is also being upfront about what an integrator gets paid, and what the install was "sold" as for customer expectations. Integrators can sign up to get referrals, and then pick which referrals (if any) they want to try and tackle.

As others have pointed out, these kinds of jobs may be more hassle than they are worth, but the installer gets to make that choice for his/her self.

I've become pretty good at cherry picking jobs already. This just saves me the time of closing.

As far as quality of gear goes, that is a concern of mine. I won't waste my time banging my head against the wall. If I take a flyer on an install and things go south, no big loss. I won't take another. I don't have much to lose. They will either make it worth our time or they won't retain anything other than slammers. David seems to be aware of this fact. I trust he wants to make this a profitable endeavor, not a pump and dump.

And some consumers really don't care. I remember years ago, a client had a buddy that needed a TV hung above a fireplace. (not my favorite location) I hung the TV and they were happy. I asked about all the cables and hiding them. They said they weren't worried at all...just let them hang. That wasn't picture worthy.

The problem with $100 drops and seeming to be geared for residential but then citing really simple convenience store examples doesn't really paint the picture. If I had any jobs that were that simple, it would be great. However, I rarely get called for simple jobs. The hacks already came through at $100.00/drop or less and now the customer needs it done right.

This isn't always the case but almost every residential is twice as hard to do than most commercial jobs simply due to the structure of a home versus a commercial building. I think I can count on my hand how many home owners have conduit from the crawl/basement to the attic for future use. I have always recommended that and done that for new installs, but much of my work is retrofit. And in residential, to do a job right, generally requires more than one person.

One question aimed towards the convenience store example. Are J-Hooks or other proper means of wire fastening included? Remember, the drop ceiling is NEVER a cable tray if done properly. Technically speaking, the grid support wires can't be used either unless additional grid wire is fastened for the sole purpose of wire management.

One of my clients expanded his store and needed the cable company to install a new drop and extend an existing drop. When installing additional cameras, I popped a drop ceiling tile near where the old TV was mount on a wall that was torn down. Out of the ceiling fell 100 feet of coiled up (stuffed up) coax cable complete with an F coupler. Maybe that's the type of installer that is needed.

I've always thought my jobs would be much easier if I didn't care (did it like the cable company) or was dishonest and cut corners. But then I probably wouldn't have those jobs.

There will be tons of installations without licensed or insured contractors. End users will accept the cost because it is cheap, and when something goes wrong, there will be one big mess. I see lawsuits abound.

That's the hope at least ;)