Verkada Favorability Statistics 2021

Published May 06, 2021 15:39 PM

Verkada's integrator favorability was already negative in 2019, but how have two years of aggressive sales tactics, sexual misconduct, and the recent mass hack impacted it?

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Inside, we examine statistics and commentary from ~200 security integrators on Verkada's positioning, pros, and cons.

Strong *** ********

*******'* *** ************ *** * **** low *** -**%:

IPVM Image

******** ***** **** ****** ******* ** two *****, ***** ********* **** ********* one ********** *****. ***:******* ************ ******* ****

IPVM Image

Less ***** ******* ** / ***** ****** ********

****** */* ** *********** ******* *** US *** *** **** ****** ***** Verkada ** **** ** *******. *** favorability *** ****** ****** *** ** (-66) **** ********* (-**).

IPVM Image

Key ******

********** ********* **** **** ******* *** themes:

  • ********: **********
  • ***** *******
  • ****-**
  • ****/************* ********
  • *********:

Negative: **********

******* *********** *** ******** ******** ******** about ******* *** ***** *** ****** it **** ** **** *** ******.

  • "** * ****** **** ** ******* why * ******* "********"? * ****** their ******** ***** ** ******* ******* you ***'* *** ** *** ******* recurring ****. ********* ***** *********. ***** entirely ** *** ****** ****, *** on ********* ******* ******** ** ********. From **** * **** **** ***** cameras *** **** *** ****** *** times, ***** ** ****** *** * company **** ****** ** ** ******* the ""*********"" *** ** ******** **** their ******* **** ******."
  • "***'* **** *********** *** ********* ***** tactics, ******* ******* *** ******** ******* cannot *******, ***** ***** *** ******** and ******* ** ***** ******, ***** about *** ************** ** ******* **** from *** **** ** *** ****** (claiming ****** ** *** **** *** that *** ** ******* ******)"
  • "***'* **** ***** ***** ********, *** any ******* **** **** *****. * don't *** **** ***** ****** **** longer ** *** ********* **** **** up ** *** ***** ****** ***** necks *** ***** **** *** ******** offerings."
  • "**** ******* ******'* ** *** **** evil. ********* *********, ******* ** ********* to *********** *******, **** **** **** about ******* *** *** ****** ********. They **** ** *** *** **** club."
  • "*** **** ** *** **** ** this ***, *** ***** ********* *********, pitting *********** ******* *** *******, **** breaches, *** ********* *******."
  • "***** ** *****? *** ******** ****-** model, *** ****** ***** **********, *** sexual **********, *** ******* ******** ************* that's ********* ***** ** ** *** product *** ********** ** ******...*** *** of ***** ****** ** ****** ** walk ****. ***** ******** ** ***** that **** ******* ****, ** **** speed."
  • "* *** ********** *** ******** ***** of ********* * ******* ****** *** end-users *** ***'* **** *** ***'* care ** **** *** **** & bolts **** **** * ***** / access ****** **** *** *** ******* to ****** *********** **** **** **** a ****** **** ******* ** ******** for *** **** ** '******* ** and ****** **'. ** ******** * fixed/known **** **** * ****** ** time. **** ***** ****, * ********* do *** ******* **** *** ******* and *******/******* ***** ******* ** ******* are *** ****. ** ******** ********* a ****** ***** * ******'* ******* - *** ***** *** ******* ** sales - *********** **** ** *** us *** *** ****** ** **** providing ** ***** **** *******. **** should *** * *** ***** *****."
  • "******* ********** ***** *******, ***** *******, THIER ***** ******"
  • "**** *** **** **** **** **** on **** ************, *** *** * like **..."
  • "*********** *******, ******* ******, ********* ******* culture."
  • "** ****** **** ** ** * can't *** ********* **** ***** * security ******* ********, ***'* *** ********"

Proprietary ****** / ****-**

*** **** ****** ****** ********* *** on *******'* ****** ******* *** ************ model ***** ***** ** ***** ** their ********.

  • "* ** ********** ******* ******* ** a *******. * ** **** ********* against **** ******* *'* **** ** lay **** * ****** ** ********** and **** **** **** *** ************ expensive **** ** ********* ****** ** or **'* *** ****** ********* ** my ******* **** ** * ****** word *** ** ***** *** ****. When * ***** *** **** *** companies **** ****** **** **** * actually **** * *** ** ******* for **** ******* *** ****** **** a ****** ******** * **** ***'* find *** **** **** *** ****."
  • "** * ******** ********** ** ******* their ** ** ******** ********. *** idea ** *** ******* ***** *********** and ** ******** * "*****" ** service ** *** **** ** **** is ***** ********* ** *** *** user ** **** **********."
  • "******** ******** ** **** *** ** and **** *** *******"
  • "* *** **** *** **** **** webinar. * **** **** *** ****** in *******. *** ** * **** of *** ** ** ********* **** would."
  • "******** ******** ** **** *** ** and **** *** *******"
  • "***** **** ***** ********* *** * totally ******** **** ******* **** ********. Cancelling * ************ ***** ****** ** end ***** ********** ********** *******. "
  • "*** * *** ** ***** ****** into *** ****** ************. *** ********** of ***********."
  • "***'* **** *** **** ** ***** locked **** ***** **** ************, ****'* impressed **** *** **** ** **** given."
  • "* ** *** ******* *** ***** model ** ******* ********* ** * platform"
  • "******* ******* ** ** **** ********* with ***** **** *******. * ***'* like *** ******-** ****** ** ***** contracts."
  • "***'*/***'* *** *******. * ***'* ******* a *********** ******. * ***'* ******* a *****-***** ******."
  • "*********** ******* *** ******. ** ******!"
  • "*********** *****, ** ******."
  • "*********** ** * "***" **** *****"
  • "*** * ****** **** ** ***** sell *** ****** ******* **** ******."
  • "****** **** *** **."
  • "****** **** ** *** ********* ** me."

Sales *******

**** **** ****** **** ******** ** Verkada's ***** *******:

  • "* ***'* ***** *******'* ****** ***** tactics. **** **** ********* ** ********* and **** ** ******** ** *** the ****. * ***** **** ******* prior ** *** **** ** ***** cameras. **** *** *** ***** *** money *** *** ***** *** ******** of *** ********* *** ******** ***** cameras."
  • "*** * ***** *** ***** ******* dealer ** ** ******** *** *******, sales *** *** *****, *** ** were ****** ** ***** *** ***** vendors ******* *** ****, *** **** the ****** ****** ** *** *** gear **** *** ***** ****** *** have ** *******, **** * ****... Verkada *******'* ** *******"
  • "***'* **** *********** *** ********* ***** tactics, ******* ******* *** ******** ******* cannot *******, ***** ***** *** ******** and ******* ** ***** ******, ***** about *** ************** ** ******* **** from *** **** ** *** ****** (claiming ****** ** *** **** *** that *** ** ******* ******)"
  • "*******, **** ** *** ****** **** go **** *****. ***** ***** *** recent ******** **** ** ******** ** use ****."
  • "**********, * ** *** * *** of ***** ***** ******** *** *** super ***** ********* **** ********* ** view ** *** *******."
  • "***** ********** ********* *** ***** ******* are ********** ******** *** *** **** what **** ****** ** *** **** run *** * ***'* *** * lot ** ****-**** ********* ** *** enterprise ******. * ***** ***** *** goal ** ** ** ****** ** one ** *** *** ****( ********, ADT) ****** **** *** *** ** steam."
  • "**** ********** ********* *********, ** ***'** working ** * **** * *** the ******* **** ***** ***** *** customer **** *** **** ** ***."
  • "**** *** ********."
  • "***'* **** *** *** **** ** business."
  • "**** ****** **** *** **** ** end *****"

Hack / ************* ********

*******, **** *********** **** ********* ***** Verkada's ****** ****/**** ****** (***:******* **** ****).

  • "*** **** ***** *** ******** ******* they *** *** ******* ******* ** security. ******* ********* ***** ** **** to **** ***** *** ****."
  • "** *** **** * ******** ** something **** ****"
  • "*** ****** ******** ****** *****'* ******** me."
  • "*** ** **** **** *** ******** when **** ****** ******** ******** ****** it. **** ******* ******* ******** ******** in *** ****."
  • "******** ****** *** *** ******* *** users *** ****** ** ****** *** exposure"
  • "*********, *** **** ** ***** ***** cameras *******. *** ****** ******** ****** is ****** ************."
  • "** *** * *** ** ***** business ***** *** *** **** **** had ** *** **********."
  • "*** ******* ***** *** **********, ****** them *** *** ***** **** ** the ***** ***** ******."
  • "******* ***** ******** ***** ** ** lacking."
  • "******** ****** ******** *******"
  • "**** **** ******** **** ********."
  • "* ****** ***** ****, **** * read ***** *** *******!"

Positives: **** ** *** / ********* / ****** *****

*********** **** * ******** ******* ** Verkada ***** **** ** *** *** analytics ** *** **** ********. ******** integrators **** ********* **** ******* *** given **** *********** ******* ** ***** leads.

  • "* **** *** ***. ** ** easy ** *** *** ********* **** the **********. ** ** **** **** easy ** ***** ** *** *****. The ******* *** ******* ****** *** better. ********* **** *** **** ** use *** *** **** ** ** to *** ** *** ******. ** a *******, ** **** **** **** bring ** ** **** **** *****."
  • "******* ** * ****** ******. ** people *** **** **** **** **** it's * **** ********** ******. ******* at **** *** ******** ***** ** just ***** ****. ** ** ***** easy ** ********* ** ****. ** seems **** *** ********** ****** *** features. ***** ******** ** ***** *** is **** ******* ** ******** ***** can ** *******."
  • "** **** ** * **** ** say ** *** ******* *** **** great *** *** **** *****. ** have **** ****** $** ** ***** leads **** *** **** ****. ********* support ** ***** *** *** ****** policy *** ********** *** ** **** better **** *** **** ** ** thru **** ******** *** **** ** get * *********** ******. * ** not **** *** **** **** *** camera ******* * ***** ** *** customer ******* **** **** **** ***** anymore. **** **** *** *** **** access ******* ** ****."
  • "******* **** ** ***** ********, **** have * ***** *******, * **** warranty *** *'** *** ********* **** with ***** ******* ****. ****** **** the ********* *** **'* ***** ****** to ***."
  • "*** ********** ************ ********** *** **** good, **** **** *** ******* *** can ******* * ***** *********, ***** the *********, **** ***********, ************* *** efficiency, **** *** **** ** ********* backup ** **** ********* ***** **********, good ******* *** ********, *** ** in *****, **** ************, *** **** BRAND."
  • "** *** ***** ** *** ********. SIMPLE, ***** *** **** ** ******."

****** *** ********** ***** ******** ****** for ******* ******* **** ****.

******** **** ******* **** **** ******* me **** **** *****. *** *** something **** **** *******.

However, ******* *** ***** ******** **********

** *** ***** ****, ***** ******* has **** ****** **** ******** ***********, Verkada *** **** *********** ***-***** *** ****-*******,******* ******* ***, ** ******* ** *********.

** ** ******** **** ******* *** build *** ******** ******* *******, ** even *********** ********** **** ******** ***********, though **** ******** **** **** ** the ******* ** ****** ** **** so **** ** *** *** (****** Verkada **** ******* **** ** ** opportunity *** *** ***********).

**************

**** *** ***** ******* * ******* that *** ****** ** ********, ** quickly, ******* ******** ***********. ** ** an **************, ** * ****.

***** *******'* ******** ** *** ****** over *** **** **** *** *** all ********** **** ********, ** ** not ****** *** ******* ** ************* change *** ********. ** **** ** interesting ** *** **** ******* *** do ****** *** ******* ********* *** negative *********** ******* *** ****** ****** and ****** *** ********.

Comments (30)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 06, 2021

******* *****'* ****, **** ** **** on ******* ***********, ** ***** ******* integrators **** **** ***** ** ******** out ** ** **** ***** ** bothering ** ******* ** **** ******. So * ** ********* **** ***** favorability ** ** **** ** **** article ** *********. * **** ******* that * ***** ******** ** **** with ********* ****** *** ** ******** a ***** **** ******* ******** *** cameras *** ***** ********, **** ** the ********** ** **** * ******* integrator ***** ****** ** * ************ or *********** **** * ************. ** any ******* ********** ** ******* ********* provider, ** **** *** ********* ***** of *** ******** *****, ** *** going ** ****** ******** ******** ***** Verkada. **** *** ******* ** ** with ***** ********* ****** ** ****** misconduct ****, **** ****** ***** ** to ****** ******** *****. ****** ** think ** * **********... ***** ** like ***** ** * **** ***** and ****** *** ** **** *** a ************ ****** *** * **** turbine ************ ***.

(6)
(2)
JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2021
IPVM

* **** *** * ***** *** an ***********.

***** * ***'* ***** ******* '*****' or '*****' ** ** ***** ** security ***********, ****** **** **** ********* is * *******. ** **** *** released ****'* ***** *** *** **** are *** ***** *** ******* **** the ********** *** *******. ******** ******, ***** ******* ** **** ********, are ****** ******* ******* ********* **** to **** ******* ***********.

****, ******* *** **** ***** **** to *** ******** *********** ** **** their ********, ** **'* *** ** if (****** *****) ******* ******* *********** selling ***** ********.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 06, 2021

****, *************** *********** ******* *******, * **** the *** ** ** *********. *** they *** *** ******** ******* *********** but * ******* ******** ** *******. And **** ***'* "****" *******, **** are **** * **** ******* *** at ****** **** ******. *'** **** the ******. ***** ** ** ***** added. **** ** **** *** ******* batch ** ******** *******. **** ******** started ******* **** **** ****** ** the *********** ******** ****** *********** *** offered ** *********** *** ***** *******'* already *** *********** ************* *** ****'* see *** "***" ** ******** **** simply ****** ** ******* ********* ********* or **** **** *******'* - *** of *** ***** ******** ******* ** my ********* **/*** ** **** *******, I ** *** *****. ******** **** needed * ******* ** *** *** user. ******* **** ** *** ********* back ** ****, *** * ***** see **** ****'* ***** *********** - simply ******* ** ***** ******* ****** and ******** *****. *** * *** Yeti! ** **** ** **** **? They **** ****** ****** * ******* to *** ******** ** ***** - so ** *******'* - ** **** relationships ******. *** **** ***'* **** anyone, **** ** ******.

(1)
(1)
JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2021
IPVM

** ** *******'* - ** **** relationships ******. *** **** ***'* **** anyone, **** ** ******.

**** *** ** * ********** *** game *** ****, * ***'* ****. No *** *** **** ***** ** do **** ** ******** ****** ** video ************. *** ******** ** *** far / **** ** ******. *** they **** ** ******** ***** ******** sales ****? ***? ***? ***? *,***?

****'* *** ******* ** ****** * real ******* ** **** *********** *** are ******** *** ******** - *** having ** ***** **** ** ******* internal ***** ****. ** ***** **** economically. ** ***** **** ***. * don't ****.

** *** ***** *******, ** ***** is **** ******* ****** *** **** if ******** *********** **** *** ******* or ******** *** ******** *** ****** them ** ** ****** ******** ********** a ******** ******* ** *** ****** that **** ******** **** ******* ***.

** *** ** ** ***********, ******* did ***** ******* ** *********** **** Hikvision - ** ******** ******* ** perceived **** ********** ** ******** *********** than ** *** ** *** *** government. (**** **** ******* *** ******** but ******* *** ***** -** ** -56 *** ******* ** ***********).

(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
May 10, 2021

"******* *****'* ****, **** ** **** on ******* ***********, "

*** ****** **** **** ** *******?

IPVM Image

"******* ***** * ****-****** ******* ***** Manager ** **** ****** *** **-********, growth, *** *********** ** *** ******* reseller ********. ** ** ***** ****** of **** ****-******* ******* ************, **** primary ************** **** ** ** ******* and ******* * *******-*** ** ******** partners ** ** ** ****** ** assigned ******* ******.*** ******** ******* ***** Manager**** ********* *********** *********-***** ******* *************, build ********* *** **-*** ******** *****, design *** ******* ***** *** ********* training, ****/****** **- *** *******- ******* marketing **********, *** ** *** ********' advocate ****** ******* ************ ********' ******** value ** ******* *****, *** ***** duties ** ********."

(1)
JH
John Honovich
May 10, 2021
IPVM

* ***** *** ****** **** ** over************** *********** ** ** ****** ***********, etc.

* ***** ***** ******* ***** ******** system *********** *** *** ********* ******** for ******** ********* **** ** ******** with ****, *.*.,*** ********* *** $** ******* ***** Touts ******* ***********

(1)
(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 06, 2021

*% ******** ******, *** **** ***** have ***** ***,*** ******* ******! ****'* that *** ***** *** **** ****** customers **** ** *** ******'* **********?

* **** ** **** *********. ** should ** *********. *** ********** ** doesn't ****** ****** **** **** ** folks.

(2)
(2)
JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2021
IPVM

*** **** ***** **** ***** ***,*** cameras ******! ****'* **** *** ***** how **** ****** ********* **** ** the ******'* **********?

******* *** ***** **** **** **** 100,000 *****. **** **** ***+ ***********, they **** ****** ******* ~$*** ******* and *** ****, **** **** ~*,*** customers.

(5)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 06, 2021

**** ***** - * ***** ****'* about *** *** *** ****** - Yeti ***** ** ***** ****** **** Verkada ** **** ****.

(6)
(9)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
May 06, 2021

**** ******* ******* *** ******** ** gold ******...

(1)
JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2021
IPVM

**** ***** ** ***** ****** **** Verkada ** **** ****.

* *** ** **** *** **** was ****** *******...

**** *** *******'* * **** ****** currently ******* ***, **** **** **** the **** ****:

IPVM Image

***** **** ****** *** ******* *** this? ** *** ***, ***** *******'* reputation?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 06, 2021

**** ***** * **** **** *** - * **** * ***. (**** that *** *******). * *** **** for ****** *** ** ***** **** and ***. * ***** *** ****** try *** *** - * **** you ***'* ****** *** **** * vendor - *** **** *** *** - ***'** ******* ***.

(1)
(1)
JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2021
IPVM

*'** **** ******:

IPVM Image

** **** **** **** ******? *** IPVM **** **** ****** ********?

(1)
(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 06, 2021

*'* *** **** ** *** **** to ****** **********. ***** *** *** do * ********. **** ** ****** vs ******* - *** ***** ***** temp ******, ***...

:)

(1)
(3)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jul 05, 2021

**** *** ******* **** **** *** each *****. *** **** ***** ***** them ** ***** *********, *** *** bought ***** **** *** **** **** it *****.

*** *** *** ******* ** *** is **** ***** *** **** *** turned **** *** ********* ** **, because ** *** ****** ***-******* (****: look ** **** ******). ***** ****'* precisely *** **'* **** *******...

JH
John Honovich
Jul 05, 2021
IPVM

****'*** ******** **** ** *** *** story, ** **** *** ***** *** are ******** **:

****** ****** *** ******** ****** * simple *******--"****** ********, **** *** ******"--*** focused ***** ********* ** *** ******-****** core ** ****** *********** ****** *** fishermen ** ***** ***********. ** *** first *** *****, **** ***** ****** shipped **** *** *** ***** ** a **** *** *** *-***** ** create * ************ ****** *** *******. "I ****** **** **** ** ******** our ******** ** *** ******* ****** of *** *******," **** ***. "** when ******* *** * **** ****** in *** **** ** ***** *****, they ***** ****** ****."

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
May 06, 2021

***** *** ***** ********* *** **** the ****** ** ******* ***** ** go */* * *** *** ******* which ** ******? ***** **** *** rip *** *** **** ******* *** bought *** *** ***** **** **** to *** ** ******** ******* ** them.

Avatar
Craig Bruce
May 06, 2021
BDH Consulting

**** ** ***** ****, *** **** integrators **** ******* ******* *** **** clients ** *******.

*** *******:

* **** *** * **** * few **** *** **** * ***** healthcare **** ****** *******, **** **** "We ****** **** *******'* ******** *** have *** * *** **** ***** over *** **** *** ******. ** approached *** ******* ********** ***** ********* these ******* ****** *** ******* *** they *****'* **********, *** ** ****?"

**** ******* ***** ** ** **** providing ***** ***-******** ********* ** **** client.

** *** *** ** *** *******, they **** "****** *** **** ********* to ** *** *** ******* ** to ***** **** (** ***** *******) old **********"

**'* ****-******* ** ** **** ***** security *********** *** *** ********* ** their *** *******.

*** ****** ** ****** ***** (******* you ***** ** ***)

*** *** **** **** ***** *** serve **** *******.

****** *** *** ******** ****!

(3)
(4)
MM
Michael Miller
May 06, 2021

**'* ** * **** ********** ********* several ******* ******** *** ******* **** are ****** ********** ** ********** ********* we ********* **** ** * **** proprietary ***** ******** ** *****.

(3)
(1)
Avatar
Craig Bruce
May 07, 2021
BDH Consulting

*******, ***** ******* *** *** **** goal.

PR
PATRICK RADOMSKY
May 10, 2021

"*** ****** ** ****** *****" **** you're ** ***** ***** *** ********** unconcerned **** ************* (** ******* **** client **********) *** *** *******. **** any ********** ***** ***** ****** ** salt * ****-**** **** * *-***** executive *** ****'** ******* ***** *** that ******** (*******) ** *** ****.

********* *** ** ********** ** ******* because **'* * ****-*****, ***** *** object *** **** *****'* **** ** a **** ***. ** ** **********, especially *** ******** *****, **********-***** ********, taking **** **** ** ***** ********** approach ******* ***** **** "********" ******** into * *********. ** ***'** *** asking *** ***** ********* *** ******* devil's ******** ** * ********* **** this, *** ***** ***? **** ***** do *** *****? *** ** **** the **** **** ******* **** *** you ******* ******* ** ***** "*******" in * ********* *** ***'** ****** participating ** * **** ** *** bottom.

***, ** *** *****, **** **** easy ***** *** *** **** **** the ********, **************, *** **** ** loyalty/support ******* ***, *****?

(6)
(1)
(1)
(1)
Avatar
Craig Bruce
Jul 02, 2021
BDH Consulting

** ******* ** *** ********** **** Verkada ** *****.

******* *****'* *** ** ******* *** other *******, ****'* ******* ** *** relationships ** **** ***** **** ****.

***** *********** **** **** *** *** experiences *** **** **** ****** ** see *** ****** *******, **** ** words.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jul 02, 2021

**** ***’* *** *** ******* ******* partner ******* **** ***’* **** ******* one. ***’** ******* ** ******* *** one ****** **** **** **** *** loyalty ** *** - ** ****** else - ****** **********

(1)
Avatar
Craig Bruce
Jul 02, 2021
BDH Consulting

**. *** ** ***.

MM
Michael Miller
Jul 03, 2021

**** ***** ** *** ****** *** super ***** ****** ** *** ******* networks ** *** **** * ***** call **********.

UE
Undisclosed End User #6
Jul 02, 2021

******** ******** **** ******* *****'* *** much ***** *** ** **** ************. There *** ******* *********** ********* **** could ****** *** *** ********'* ***** and *** *** **** ** * disadvantage. ***** *** ****** *** ******** options ** * **** ****.

(1)
(1)
Avatar
Craig Bruce
Jul 02, 2021
BDH Consulting

* ****** **** ******* *'* ****, go **** * **** *** *** building ********* **** **** ***** * legacy *** **** ******.

** *** ***** **** **** * once ** ******** *** **** *** that ** **** ******* **** *** Avigilon *** ***** ***** ******* *****'* fit.

*** *** ** ****.

(2)
MM
Michael Miller
Jul 03, 2021

***

UE
Undisclosed End User #6
Jul 05, 2021

**, ** *** *** *** ****** you ****** **** **** ***** ******* besides *******. *** *** ***** *** time ********** *** ********** *** ************* of **** ******** ** **** *** too **** ****** * **** ** the ***** ******** * ****** *** your ********?

RF
Ron Frey
Nov 10, 2021

***** * ********** **** ******* ************ are *********, * **** **** ***** focus **** ** ********** ******, **** as ******* ** ****** *** **** products *** *** ********* *** ******* best ************** *********. ** **** **** requests ** ********* *** ** *** best ** ******* ****, *** **** are ****** ******* *** ********** ******. Performance ******* ** **** ** **** useful **** ** **** ******* *********.