What about UL listing? That's a requirement in our jurisdiction and I assume many others. I'd recommend that be a standard check for any access/video product. Apologies if it was included!
This is something I'll ask Verkada to clarify. Good question.
'Shunting readers', or tying multiple reader wires together is a bad idea, but I'll confirm with them that 2 doors are required to control both 'in' and 'out' reader inputs.
Three clicks to pop a door open for someone could be a HUGE pain in some applications. We do that an average of 35 times a day across our system and that time adds up. Others probably do it way more so that alone would be a huge burden. We go out of our way to streamline things like that so it would drive me crazy.
The 'three clicks' you mention is for lockdown. Verkada followed up by explaining they include an unlock button on the 'doors' screen:
It still is not available on the 'Live' screen that most users are likely to actively monitor, so it is 'one-click' away, but not nested/hidden like 'Lockdown'.
To your point about streamlining the interface, customization of the layout/creating buttons is not supported by Verkada, so that's certainly a potential barrier.
In reading through the article, we did want to offer some clarification:
Manual Unlock: One can unlock a door in a single click from the Doors list page. Please see below for a screenshot.
Lockdown: Would love your feedback on the Lockdown feature and what was clunky about it. It is generally available now. We would definitely like your insights on how to improve the experience!
3rd Party OSDP support: We were disappointed to hear that OSDP did not work for you. Perhaps the issue was caused by a wiring problem? It was difficult to see the wiring based on the pictures in the article. Typically white and green are used for Wiegand, so without seeing the reader side of things it is difficult to debug. It would be great if you could let us know the reader model you are using as we’ve tested it on numerous readers without issues. Could we set up a quick video call to debug?
UL Compliance: As mentioned in our previous correspondence, we have been UL listed since August 31, 2020. You can find our certification here: Eurofins MET Safety Certification . Please see below for the certifications the AC41 has received.
CSA, 62368-1, Safety for Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety requirements
MET, MET-C 60839-11-1, ULC CAN; Alarm and Electronic Security Systems - Part 11- 1: Electronic Access Control Systems - System and Components Requirements
UL, 62368-1, Safety for Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety requirements
UL, UL294, UL Standard for Safety Access Control System Units
-------------------------------------------
[IPVM Response]
On Issue #1, we confirmed Verkada is correct, i.e.:
I'll update the report. However, there is not a clear indication this is a button and not a status indicator.
Users see it, but may not recognize it can be 'pressed', and even a small circle around the lock image (like the green timing circle that appears when active) could clarify this to the user as a command button.
On #2 and #3, we've scheduled time to discuss further with Verkada and will report back/update here.
On #4, I've updated our wording. The AC41 is showing as certified by the testing lab, (but not the UL database as of today):
We discussed this internally and are adding to this report: Verkada Pass is a separate standalone app from their main Verkada Command video app.
There are no access features in the Command app and Pass must be used. Likewise, the Pass app has reduced video features, like no analytics or non-access event playback. This means that users may need two apps for the full app experience.
I'll ask Verkada to comment on whether they plan to keep the two apps and report back.
There seems to be an influx of new access control systems on the market. There also seems to be an influx of "people off the street" being instant experts on access control and video systems. Most of the new access control systems I have seen lack some serious functionality such as I/O board expansion for controlling or interfacing with other systems. One facial recognition system I was testing allowed me as an active "cardholder" to have 6 different faces under my profile. The other 5 faces were of my family members. The system allowed all of us to unlock the door thinking it was me. I am starting to worry about the validity of all of these new systems while others seem to be jumping on board very fast. Most are trying to abandon credentials and move to phone based or facial recognition. I was wondering how these systems would fit into environments that have strict compliance issues. Would an enterprise end user that is subject to FIPS 201, or NERC CIP, or CFATS or similar obligations ever consider using a system like Verkada for Video OR Access Control? My guess is no way. What do you think?
Would an enterprise end user that is subject to FIPS 201, or NERC CIP, or CFATS or similar obligations ever consider using a system like Verkada for Video OR Access Control? My guess is no way. What do you think?
Verkada doesn't appear as a FIPS 201 compliant system for either cameras or access. (Interestingly, hosted access competitors Brivo and Feenics are.) At this point, Verkada couldn't be bid as conformant/compliant. CIP? Not right now, for sure.
But those strict high-security deployments aren't a big percentage of the access market in general, and I think Verkada should focus on developing/refining basic things like inputs/outputs first.
UI#4 Your first sentence stood out for me. Yes, there are a large influx of "new" access control players these days. It seems that physical security in general is now the new "hot" technology in silicon valley and especially in the VC backed start up world. I wonder how many in the leadership roles of these companies are looking to stick around for 5, 10, 20 years or are they just doing as their bio's indicate working toward the next sellout. I know that it seems impressive to promote the past accomplishments of the senior leadership on the company websites but words like "serial entrepreneur" followed by a long list of start-up/cash-outs clearly paints a picture of their true intention.
Rick, 90% of the executives of these companies likely will be out of the industry by 2025; However, the sheer amount of funding gives them an extremely good chance to disrupt the industry, especially since investors correctly, in my opinion, see how sticky customers will be with access control as a service.
I agree with your statement. We are seeing as we migrate through this COVID world a drastic increase in our cloud access subscription from our customer based moving away from on-site servers. I think that them having the years of experience with our solution on site tends to increase their comfort level as they move to our cloud which is roughly the same core system with enhanced web interfaces and mobile applications. This is something difficult for the newer cloud only companies to replicate. One of our dealers, within the last month, was awarded a contract to move a large customers 2200+ readers to our cloud! That represents nearly 145 locations and 18K employees.
Inputs can be configured to Unlock Doors, but that doesn't kill power to the locks, so there's a good chance the Fire Integration will need to be done at a separate power supply issuing electricity to the locks and/ or panel. (And no backup batteries can be used then.)
Verkada is nothing more than glorified "keyless entry" at best. Works if that is all you are trying to do it take brass keys out of someones hand and control access by a schedule.
Structurally, Touchless features add functionality not seen in Verkada before, but available in other reader platforms like Openpath, Nortek, HID, and others.
Also, the addition of Tailgate Detection analytics is a free update to integrated cameras. This feature is generally a fee-add when available, likeAxis Tailgate Detection Tested, but Verkada has included it for no extra cost.
In both cases, we are queueing up a test to see how well these offerings work.
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Comments (26)
Michael Miller
How does the system function without a WAN connection?
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mike it uses the new "airdb" that Verkada invented.
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
are the inputs supervised?
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Undisclosed #2
Much meditation is needed for this eval, I sense much weakness in Verkada and want to rant so hard. If I have time this weekend, I'LL BE BACK!!!
KABOOM!
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Undisclosed Integrator #3
What about UL listing? That's a requirement in our jurisdiction and I assume many others. I'd recommend that be a standard check for any access/video product. Apologies if it was included!
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Alex Daley
Can it be configured for in/out readers? And then presumably, each door would consume two licenses?
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Ross Vander Klok
Three clicks to pop a door open for someone could be a HUGE pain in some applications. We do that an average of 35 times a day across our system and that time adds up. Others probably do it way more so that alone would be a huge burden. We go out of our way to streamline things like that so it would drive me crazy.
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Brian Rhodes
[Verkada Responds]
Verkada sent this feedback:
In reading through the article, we did want to offer some clarification:
Manual Unlock: One can unlock a door in a single click from the Doors list page. Please see below for a screenshot.
Lockdown: Would love your feedback on the Lockdown feature and what was clunky about it. It is generally available now. We would definitely like your insights on how to improve the experience!
3rd Party OSDP support: We were disappointed to hear that OSDP did not work for you. Perhaps the issue was caused by a wiring problem? It was difficult to see the wiring based on the pictures in the article. Typically white and green are used for Wiegand, so without seeing the reader side of things it is difficult to debug. It would be great if you could let us know the reader model you are using as we’ve tested it on numerous readers without issues. Could we set up a quick video call to debug?
UL Compliance: As mentioned in our previous correspondence, we have been UL listed since August 31, 2020. You can find our certification here: Eurofins MET Safety Certification . Please see below for the certifications the AC41 has received.
CSA, 62368-1, Safety for Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety requirements
MET, MET-C 60839-11-1, ULC CAN; Alarm and Electronic Security Systems - Part 11- 1: Electronic Access Control Systems - System and Components Requirements
UL, 62368-1, Safety for Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety requirements
UL, UL294, UL Standard for Safety Access Control System Units
-------------------------------------------
[IPVM Response]
On Issue #1, we confirmed Verkada is correct, i.e.:
I'll update the report. However, there is not a clear indication this is a button and not a status indicator.
Users see it, but may not recognize it can be 'pressed', and even a small circle around the lock image (like the green timing circle that appears when active) could clarify this to the user as a command button.
On #2 and #3, we've scheduled time to discuss further with Verkada and will report back/update here.
On #4, I've updated our wording. The AC41 is showing as certified by the testing lab, (but not the UL database as of today):
Create New Topic
Brian Rhodes
We discussed this internally and are adding to this report: Verkada Pass is a separate standalone app from their main Verkada Command video app.
There are no access features in the Command app and Pass must be used. Likewise, the Pass app has reduced video features, like no analytics or non-access event playback. This means that users may need two apps for the full app experience.
I'll ask Verkada to comment on whether they plan to keep the two apps and report back.
Create New Topic
Undisclosed Integrator #4
There seems to be an influx of new access control systems on the market. There also seems to be an influx of "people off the street" being instant experts on access control and video systems. Most of the new access control systems I have seen lack some serious functionality such as I/O board expansion for controlling or interfacing with other systems. One facial recognition system I was testing allowed me as an active "cardholder" to have 6 different faces under my profile. The other 5 faces were of my family members. The system allowed all of us to unlock the door thinking it was me. I am starting to worry about the validity of all of these new systems while others seem to be jumping on board very fast. Most are trying to abandon credentials and move to phone based or facial recognition. I was wondering how these systems would fit into environments that have strict compliance issues. Would an enterprise end user that is subject to FIPS 201, or NERC CIP, or CFATS or similar obligations ever consider using a system like Verkada for Video OR Access Control? My guess is no way. What do you think?
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Undisclosed #5
I didn't see any mention of connecting to a fire alarm panel?
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Verkada is nothing more than glorified "keyless entry" at best. Works if that is all you are trying to do it take brass keys out of someones hand and control access by a schedule.
Create New Topic
Brian Rhodes
[AUGUST 2021 UPDATE]
Verkada announces 'BLE Touchless Entry' and video 'Tailgate Detection'. These features may change the fundamental appeal of Verkada Access for some. These features are free updates to Verkada's Command app.
Structurally, Touchless features add functionality not seen in Verkada before, but available in other reader platforms like Openpath, Nortek, HID, and others.
Also, the addition of Tailgate Detection analytics is a free update to integrated cameras. This feature is generally a fee-add when available, like Axis Tailgate Detection Tested, but Verkada has included it for no extra cost.
In both cases, we are queueing up a test to see how well these offerings work.
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Michael Miller
Wireless lock integration now: Announcing Allegion Schlage Lock Integrations
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