The HDcctv Shakeup

Author: John Honovich, Published on Oct 31, 2013

Two years ago, we projected that companies going for either Axis VSaaS or the HDcctv Alliance were making desperate moves. Now, it is more clear than ever that both are the case.

HDcctv's challenges should be no surprise to anyone who has seen their disastrous marketing. Now, though, the fundamental composition of the 'Alliance' has been shaken up.

The *******

*** ******** ******* ** *** ******** **** ****, ******* *** Stretch, *** **** ***** ********** ** *****'* ****, ***** *** Sony. ** ***** **** ****, **** ** **** ***************** ********* ****** ****:

***, **'* ********** *******. *** ** *** ******** *** **** from *** ******** ********* ******** ** *** *** *********:

 

[****** ****: ****** ** *** *** ******** ********* *******. ***** is *** ***** ***.]

************ *** ***** ***** ** *****************? ****, ****** ************* ************ ***** **** ******* ****, ***** ***** **************** ** ** **** **************** ****.

*** ******** **** ** **** ***** ****-********** ******** *** ***** facets:

  • ****** ** (******** ***** **** ****) [*****]
  • ****** ** (************ **** ***** *** ****) [******]
  • ****** *.* (**-*********** ****, ********* ****** ****** *******). [********]

**** *** **** *** ** ***** ************ '*********' **** *** same ***** *** *** **** ****.

What's ***** **?

**** ******** **** ******** ******* ***** ** *** *********, ****** the ******* ************* ******** ** *** ****** '********', *** ******** has **** ****** ** ********** *** **** ********.

***** ****** *** *****'* ********* ********* ** *** ************** ******** ******* ********* *** '********', **** **** ***** **** ******$**,*** *** **** ************, ******** *** ******** ** ******** ** *******.

***** ****** *** ***** ***** **** ******* '************' ***** **** their **********, *** ********'* *** **** *********** *** ***** ********** will ************* *** ** ******** *** ****.

Comments (19)

Would the old "Colbert-eating-popcorn" meme be appropriate here?

How many years they have been around? and they are still trying to justify HDCCTV technology in CCTV industry. It will always have niche market, but unfortunately, IMHO, the boat sailed out a long time ago.

It's been 4 years - 2009 (see our original coverage). There's certainly some (limited) adoption of non standardized HD-SDI but the HDcctv Alliance has been inconsequential at best, and detrimental at worse, in this.

I have a somewhat related question. Yesterday I received an email from a Chinese vendor touting 1000 TVL analog cameras. What exactly is up with that? Can someone explain how that works, how it compares to the HDCC guys? I'm told that a 960H type DVR is required to take advantage of it.

I'm almost embarassed to be asking this because it seems so elementary, but I've been in this business over 12 years and I'm confused by this.

If you get a spam email from a Chinese manufacturer, you know it must be good!

800TVL, 900TVL, 1000TVL, etc. are all analog specifications - 'super' ones at that. It's mostly just spec gamesmanship and not something that makes a real difference on live viewing or recording. See this discussion.

960H is yet another 'thing'. This requires special encoder cards / chips to process. It delivers a wider aspect ratio than traditional analog (960 x 480 vs 640 x 480). It's a tweener in terms of pixel count, more than analog, less than HD. See our 960H discussion.

HDcctv is completely different than either of those. It is digital 720 or 1080 HD video. You need a special encoder for these cameras as well. See our HD SDI / HDcctv tutorial.

Of course, this gets at the problem, so many incompatible, small market share offerings makes for sales and long term support problems. It's just not worth the hassle or risk, especially when Chinese HD IP kits are so inexpensive.

Thanks John. that linked discussion was exactly about what I was wondering. So if using a standard D1 resolution DVR, is it safe to say that there really is no advantage to these higher TVL cameras. (I have a tech that swears he can see the difference.)

I'm curious what the maximum visible (usable) resolution in terms of TVL's for

CIF

D1

Whenever someone says they can 'see the difference' between two options, I ask them to show me images. In cases like this (600TVL vs 700TVL vs 800TVL, etc.), typically it is extremely minor and not anything significant enough that one shows a face as a blur and the other is crisp and detailed.

In terms of CIF and D1, every analog camera is basically 540TVL or higher, which I suspect is more than enough even for D1. That said, differences can exist between cameras, regardless of the TVL count, depending on the design and components of the camera and lens.

Hi,

I'm working for a manufacturer (not pixim) and I've done a lot of testing and reading on this 6-7 years ago and although this paper does not explain all the theory in extreme details, it gives a clear answer that correlates to the testing I've done back.

Above 540TVL it is pretty much useless in your Analog security system.

And I would be surprised that the TV & A2D converter used in DVRs and encoders can now make a big use of 600+ TVL.

Go IP and Megapixel if you need more.

hdcctv's big selling point really seemed to revolve around the "complexity" of IP camera setup. That, and the reuse of existing coax, which didn't seem to be doable in many cases.

Now there are companies offering POE NVR's that reduce some of the IP setup steps.

The supposed benefits of hd-sdi don't seem to outweigh the limitations of very limited resolution options, very limited manufacturer support.

I still think this technology is going to be the laserdisc of the CCTV world.

"I still think this technology is going to be the laserdisc of the CCTV world."

Love it, just love it :)

I found it revealing that in a LinkedIn discussion last week, Todd Rockoff, Chairman of the HDcctv Alliance admitted, as he said it, "We estimate the share of certified HDcctv-compliant cameras to be about 10% of the total HDcctv cameras this year.". That's only $100 million versus HD-SDI's $900 million sales.

It's readily apparent that despite claims of technical superiority over HD-SDI, the HDcctv Alliance has failed to get its message across. Key factors are the snail's pace of actual introduction of HDcctv XR, HDcctv CX and HDcctv 2.0 which the HDcctv Alliance has touted for at least four years and Mr. Rockoff's confrontational marketing methods. To the latter, I believe the HDcctv Alliance has alienated many in the industry whose support they desperately needed.

The global market for cameras is ~$5 - 6 Billion USD, so he is claiming that HD SDI / HDcctv is 16% of the market? Just absurd. And obviously not the first time. Maybe if he said that total sales of HD SDI and HDcctv were about $100 million, that might be in the ballpark.

His original claim was "Worldwide HDcctv/HD-SDI equipment sales are blowing past US$1B this year, growing at 1000% CAGR." I assume that means cameras, DVR's and peripherals. Not having access to reliable sales data, I didn't question his figures but I think he may have been forthcoming when he admitted HDcctv cameras contributed only 10% to total HD-SDI (or as he likes to call it HDcctv, including non-compliant and compliant products).

If he was correct in his percentages and you are correct in your estimate of HD-SDI camera sales, that would make HDcctv camera sales only $10 million. No wonder there was a shakeup in the Alliance. I would guess Todd is holding onto his position as Chairman by the tips of his fingernails...

In any case, I still get a kick out of his claims about so-called technical advances on the horizon. CX, XR and 2.0 have been his technical talking points for years yet no equipment with those capabilities is available for sale. As I pointed out, IP has had all of those capabilities for years; either as a basic component of the technology or via inexpensive add-ons.

First of all, he is implying only $100 million HD SDI / HDcctv sales in 2012 (based on a claim of $1 billion USD 2013 sales and a year over year growth rate of 1000% (10x).

$100 million HD SDI / HDcctv sales in 2012 is totally reasonable. That is less than 1% of all surveillance sales globally.

1000% CAGR / annual growth rate is a joke. No product category increases 10x in a single year. Even for Todd, this is absurd. And if something grew 10x / $900 million in a year, everyone would be well aware of it, because it's such massive increase that it means vast numbers of dealers, customers and manufacturers would be part of it. Do anyone of you see HD SDI / HDcctv exploding this year?

Also, if it's a 1000% CAGR (compounded annual growth rate), then next year HD SDI / HDcctv will account for 75% of total global surveillance sales.

Listen, Todd does this all the time.

For example, in 2010, he claimed that HDcctv sales would be twice that of IP cameras in 2013 (this year).

Obviously absurd then. Obviously no where close to being true now. IP cameras still outsell HD SDI / HD cctv cameras ~50 to 1.

So Todd will confuse some people in the short run with imaginary forecasts but it's little more than smoke and mirrors that soon enough is proved false.

This is not unexpected. Over 4 years I can't recall any forecast or anything near it, occurring. At least the extra Income coming into from the new members will allow Todd to keep us entertained for a while longer.

Just noticed that Dahua is now the only steering committee member. Very diverse committee!

Why is IC Realtime listed as a Manufacturing Member? Aren't they just a Dahua OEM? That's basically double counting.

I am sure they don't consider themselves 'just a Dahua oem' :)

If the Alliance counted for anything, I suppose it would be good for keeping up appearances.

Todd looking for a job, I certainly don't see him preaching his alliance anymore.

Login to read this IPVM report.
Why do I need to log in?
IPVM conducts unique testing and research funded by member's payments enabling us to offer the most independent, accurate and in-depth information.

Related Reports on HD Analog

Hanwha Mega ISC West Product Releases on Apr 05, 2018
While overall new product releases have been slowing over the past few years, Hanwha is releasing a slew of 6 new offerings for ISC West,...
WDR Tutorial on Dec 20, 2017
Understanding wide dynamic range (WDR) is critical to capturing high quality images in demanding conditions. However, with no real standards, any...
This Manufacturer Shuns IP Cameras on Dec 14, 2017
One manufacturer has chosen a bold strategy in avoiding getting caught up in the race to the bottom: shun IP solutions. We spoke with an executive...
2018 Video Surveillance Cameras Overview on Dec 11, 2017
This report concisely explains the developments for surveillance cameras offered in 2017 and the state of offerings going into 2018, including...
Universal HD Analog Encoder Tested (DW Compressor) on Jul 06, 2017
Digital Watchdog has released the Compressor HD, a "universal" HD analog encoder, with support for AHD, CVI, TVI and SD analog cameras. We tested...
Milestone New "+" Claims To "Conquer The Mid-Market" on Jun 07, 2017
Milestone has declared they are going to "Conquer The Mid-Market" with new "+" releases. Will they? In this report, we examine Milestone's "+"...
TVI 4.0 Doubles HD Analog Bandwidth on Mar 05, 2017
HD analog's move up market continues. Starting a few years ago at just 720p, HD analog is now poised for 4K and beyond. Techpoint, the company...
Axis: "Everything is IP" - False on Feb 24, 2017
Axis is congratulating itself, with executive Fredrick Nilsson declaring: "Now the conversion is all done and everything is IP and analog is...
Cutting Costs 70% Using Milestone With HD Analog on Feb 23, 2017
HD analog and enterprise VMSes are often thought of as being on opposite sides of the spectrum, with HD analog best for small jobs due to its low...
Dahua 4K HD Analog Cameras Announced on Feb 23, 2017
HD analog has been gaining popularity (even if Axis hopes otherwise). Last year, HD analog's max resolution doubled from 1080p to 4MP (see our 4MP...

Most Recent Industry Reports

Best Alternatives to Banned Dahua and Hikvision on Oct 17, 2018
With the US government ban and a growing number of users banning Dahua and Hikvision, one key question is what to use for low cost? While Dahua and...
Video Quality / Compression Tutorial on Oct 17, 2018
While CODECs, like H.264, H.265, and MJPEG, get a lot of attention, a camera's 'quality' or compression setting has a big impact on overall...
Knightscope Winning Investors, Struggling With Growth on Oct 16, 2018
While Knightscope's new financials show the company only winning 11 new customers in the past 12 months, the company continues to win new...
Integrator Laptop Guide on Oct 16, 2018
This 18-page guide provides guidance and statistics about integrator laptop use. 150 integrators explained to IPVM in detail about their laptops,...
Huawei Admits AI "Bubble" on Oct 16, 2018
A fascinating article from the Chinese government's Global Times: Huawei’s AI ambition to reshape industries. While the Global Times talks about...
ADI's Financials Revealed + W-Box Growth Priority on Oct 15, 2018
  ADI is one of the most powerful distributors in the security industry but how big are they? How much profit do they make? How much do they sell...
Dahua Face Recognition Camera Tested on Oct 15, 2018
Dahua has been one of the industry's most vocal proponents of the value that AI creates: As part of this, Dahua has released a facial...
Amazon Touts Home Security Market Disruption on Oct 15, 2018
Amazon is coming for ADT and all of home security. Indeed, Amazon is advertising this as, in their own words, calling home security a: Inside...
Higher Power PoE 802.3bt Ratified, Impact on Security Products Examined on Oct 12, 2018
Power over Ethernet has become one of the most popular features of many video, access, and other security products. See our PoE for IP Video...
"New Zealand Govt Uses Chinese Cameras Banned In US", Considers Security Audit on Oct 12, 2018
Newsroom NZ has issued a report: "NZ Govt uses Chinese cameras banned in US": This comes after the US federal government banned purchases of...

The world's leading video surveillance information source, IPVM provides the best reporting, testing and training for 10,000+ members globally. Dedicated to independent and objective information, we uniquely refuse any and all advertisements, sponsorship and consulting from manufacturers.

About | FAQ | Contact