Hikvision And Dahua Sanctioned For Human Rights Abuses

By John Honovich, Published Oct 07, 2019, 05:34pm EDT

In a groundbreaking move that will have drastic consequences across the video surveillance market, Dahua and Hikvision have been sanctioned by the US government for human rights abuses.

dahua hikvision sanctions

Dahua and Hikvision are two of 28 entities added to the US 'entity list' (see the official US government announcement), as the screencap from the announcement below shows:

Human Rights Abuses - Dahua and Hikvision

The announcement calls out 'human rights violations and abuses' as shown below:

IPVM led the way in exposing Dahua and Hikvision's participation including:

IPVM also showed Hikvision cameras covering concentration camps as the excerpt from this BBC video demonstrated:

Get Notified of Video Surveillance Breaking News
Get Notified of Video Surveillance Breaking News

In retaliation, the PRC China government blocked IPVM.

Direct Impact - Selling to Dahua and Hikvision

The direct impact of sanctions is effectively banning US companies or those with US technology to sell to Dahua and Hikvision. Companies like Intel, NVIDIA, Western Digital, and Seagate will likely be blocked from selling to Dahua and Hikvision.

How much of an impact to Dahua and Hikvision here is debatable. It should, at least for the near future, impact AI and hard drives, which those US companies are large global providers.

On the other hand, Hikvision has known the sanctions were likely coming and have stocked up significantly, which should mitigate the immediate direct impact.

Indirect Impact - Severe - 'Red Flag'

The indirect impact is likely to be severe.

While US companies can sell and work for entity list companies, the US government considers such transactions to carry a 'red flag' as shown below:

While many industry executives have tried to minimize the meaning of the NDAA US government ban, nearly every industry executive we have spoken with in the past year has been very concerned about human rights issues.

We expect this will create severe issues for US citizens working for Dahua and Hikvision and US companies 'partnering' with the US government declared human rights-violating companies.

Moreover, this will trigger further scrutiny against Dahua and Hikvision, who has faced sales challenges throughout the Western world, since the ban and faces scrutiny across Europe, e.g. 9 UK MPs Call Out Hikvision Over Human Rights Violations and e.g., the video below:

UPDATE - Hikvision Response

Hikvision has issued a response, according to the Reuters reporter who broke the sanctions story, claiming this will "negatively impact the US economy":

Hikvision strongly opposes today's decision by the U.S. Government and it will hamper efforts by global companies to improve human rights around the world. Hikvision, as the security industry's global leader, respects human rights and takes our responsibility to protect people in the U.S. and the world seriously. Hikvision has been engaging with Administration officials over the past 12 months to clarify misunderstandings about the company and address their concerns. In January 2019, Hikvision retained human rights expert and former U.S Ambassador Pierre-Richard Prosper to advise the company on human rights compliance. Punishing Hikvision, despite these engagements, will deter global companies from communicating with the U.S. Government, hurt Hikvision's U.S. businesses partners and negatively impact the U.S. economy

Despite Hikvision stating it would conduct an internal review of its Xinjiang operations by Prosper and the lobbying firm he works for (Arent Fox), this report has not been released 8 months later.

Hikvision very well knows its projects inside Xinjiang that it won directly with the government, e.g., Hikvision Won a Chinese Government Forced Facial Recognition Project Across 967 Mosques.

China (PRC) Ban and Bars Against Foreign Companies Normal

While this is an unprecedented move for the US, the PRC has discriminated, banned and barred foreign companies for many years.

Even back in 2012, PRC state media declared 'foreign surveillance equipment' a risk to national security:

And while the PRC video surveillance market boomed, even the leading Western companies were effectively shut out.

This summer, Megvii, who ironically is another PRC company that was sanctioned today, admitted that foreign companies were discriminated against in China:

Foreign-owned entities are prohibited or disadvantaged in the relevant City IoT project bidding process in practice. In practice, when selecting service providers, many end users, as well as many direct customers (which are our system integrators) engaged by such end users to assist them in the supplier selection process, would set implicit requirements that the service provider must not have any foreign shareholder, or at least consider foreign ownership as a disadvantage in their decision making process. Some government agencies even explicitly set forth such requirements in their project bidding invitation documents [emphasis added]

Indeed, just last week Dahua director Chenxin Sun called bans 'common' on IPVM:

Let me tell you what I think of the US banning Chinese companies or Chinese government restricting US companies: political and economical balance. That's quite common in all times in human history. [emphasis added]

Dahua's Director also added an eye-opening perspective on slavery:

Maybe this fact can help you understand my point better: the political system and social system is changing continuously from millions of years ago until now. I don't think slavery is right or wrong, I don't think feudalism is right or wrong, they appear for a reason they are suitable for that time, now it's not suitable anymore because it's restricting the productive forces of the society. [emphasis added]

For companies like Dahua and Hikvision that have made at least a billion dollars from this, slavery, human rights abuses, etc., are neither 'right or wrong', just 'suitable' for profit.

48 reports cite this report:

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Hikvision USA Refuses [Now In], Dahua USA Drives Forward With "Coronavirus Cameras" on Apr 07, 2020
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Comments (82)

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This is a huge event for the industry and there is lots more to cover but we wanted to get it up immediately since it's already being widely reported in the global media, e.g. U.S. puts Hikvision, Chinese security bureaus on economic blacklist - Reuters, U.S. Blacklists 28 Chinese Entities Over Abuses in Xinjiang - The New York Times, US adds Chinese surveillance giant Hikvision to trade blacklist | South China Morning Post, etc.

I suspect China Communist Party official media is not going to be happy, to say the least.

For those looking for alternatives, see: Best Alternatives to Banned (and Sanctioned) Dahua and Hikvision

We will have a lot more. Ask questions and happy to get more information.

Reuters who broke the story has added a quote from us:

John Honovich, founder of surveillance video research company IPVM, said Hikvision and Dahua both use Intel, Nvidia, Ambarella, Western Digital and Seagates as suppliers and that the impact on the Chinese companies would be “devastating.”

I'll expand on my 'devastating' quote. Hikvision has already been hurt in the US and across the Western world just by the US government ban.

Sanctions for human rights abuses are far more disconcerting for businesspeople than cybersecurity concerns, meaning when I talk to execs about both topics, lots will dismiss cybersecurity but virtually no one shakes off human rights abuses.

The question then becomes who wants to work for or partner with such companies? I am pretty positive that in the US the response will be extraordinarily negative and that even in the EU, there will be significant concerns.

Toshiba stands to pick up the HDD business here.

China should be the one sanctioned above all. But I understand this is next best for our industry and the point of this website.

China should be the one sanctioned above all. But I understand this is next best for our industry and the point of this website.

this throw off comment (bolded) is bullshit and should be called out as such.

the 'point' of this website (as an OG member) is to educate all comers on video surveillance and all thing related to the video surveillance industry.

your comment attempts to diminish this 'point' with passive-aggressive misdirection as if IPVM cares only about the US video surveillance market (and is 'anti-China').

your words are either grossly misstated or you are trying to sow propaganda. which is it?

after 3 Unhelpful's I must point out:

my position is in defense of the bolded part of the comment and nothing more.

the 'point' of this website should never be construed as anything other than trying to be the best information source on all things related to the video surveillance industry.

IPVMs position in the defense of the Uyghurs is not the 'point' of the website, though I support that same position.

"IPVMs position in the defense of the Uyghurs is not the 'point' of the website, though I support that same position."

I just give you "Agree"

and IMO it is nothing to do about "defence"

It is all about the number of responses Topic create

That is JH college educational background

"It is all about the number of responses Topic create"

in expectation of many more Unhelpfuls, I completely and vehemently disagree.

you are just wrong.

while John operates a site where the business model is helped by page views, stating that these page views are 'the point' of the site is a pretty obtuse view of what IPVM actually is.

the 'point' of this website should never be construed as anything other than trying to be the best information source on all things related to the video surveillance industry.

Everyone within a professional environment needs to consider their reputation. In the professional security world, this means working with integrity, using the best products within the budget available.

IPVM's focus and the industry's focus has been on the Security of Security as of late. You could argue that Cybersecurity issues have nothing to do with providing a clear video stream of a front door. You would be right.

The issue, however, matters when it comes to our reputations as professionals in the industry. This topic, alleged human rights violations, is another consideration that professionals need to have in mind.

Identical to the issue with cybersecurity: Some customers won't care. Some companies won't care. This information helps those organizations that want to protect their brand image regarding this subject.

As a resource for physical security professionals who are making product selection decisions, this subject is 100% relevant. It is relevant for the image and reputation aspect, as well as for how this may affect product availability down the line.

Well, it would seem most people did not read it the way you did. Have a coke and a smile and relax.

I was merely reminding that China is the main culprit, not their "arms." "This website", IPVM of which I am also an OG on, is about Video Surveillance thus the focus on HIk and Dahua. Hik and also Dahua have little choice on what to do/say in fear of what the gov't would do to them. They are arms, minions of the chair.

What an opportunity missed by China, they could have cornered the USA market substantially, it seemed a near certainty, but obviously now bungled and lost.

i don't post words to get 'agrees' - because a world where everyone agrees with everything that I think would be a most boring and pathetic existence for me personally.

if I read your words wrongly, then I apologize to your personally, OG to OG.

however, to anyone who voted Unhelpful to any of my comments without engaging in a debate of my words, I have only one thing to say: please bite me.

No apologies needed my friend.

I just want you to have a coke (or drink of your preference) and a smile.

Ohhhh I thought they meant the other coke... 👃

Is it official Entity list?

Yes, and we posted that at the top of the report, copied below:

Dahua and Hikvision are two of 28 entities added to the US 'entity list' (see the official US government announcement), as the screencap from the announcement below shows:

On the organization side, this creates issues. For example, ONVIF suspended Huawei for being on the US entity list. Since Dahua and Hikvision are now on the same list, it is likely they would also be suspended. We have asked ONVIF for comment.

Also, it is unclear what the status of Dahua and Hikvision will be in the US non-profit Security Industry Association (SIA). SIA stood by Dahua and Hikvision throughout the ban (primarily because the organization is built on maximizing short term money for the industry) and now has a tough choice. Do they stand against their own government and for human rights abuses? We've asked SIA for comment.

Also, SIA, who bills itself as 'information. insight. influence' amazingly missed on China, not putting China as one of the 10 'security megatrends' of 2019. Comical.

SIA tells IPVM that:

Being placed on the Entity List is a serious development for any individual, business, or organization. SIA will be communicating this decision to our members. We will communicate any decision about membership status as appropriate.

We followed up asking about timing to which SIA responded:

If the board wants to consider any changes to our membership, they would consider it a future board meeting in the fall or at ISC West.

We are still trying to get clarity if SIA has any direct impact / exposure to these sanctions considering ONVIF already has confirmed they do have.

Separately, SIA posted a short note on the topic - U.S. Commerce Department Places Restrictions on Chinese Video Surveillance and AI Firms | Security Industry Association

Excellent news!

I am ordering another lot of ColorVU cameras

You're amazing! And you called your shot last month:

try acusense, those are very good. BTW, what is your use case for colorVu white LED cameras?

Will be interesting to see what ADT and Stanley will do. Will the big security distributors drop them?

Related on Stanley, from just this summer - Stanley Makes "Multi-Million Dollar Investment" Into Banned Hikvision Products

What's even more baffling is there were multiple news reports saying that the US government was planning sanctions for months and Stanley did that.

More broadly, the impact will likely be significant on US based OEMs who are rightfully going to be concerned about the legal implications, related: Dahua OEM Directory and Hikvision OEM Directory.

ADT has resorted to Speco and Hanwha.

Wonder if Australia will follow?

It is a crazy US goverment I have never seen before, using all kinds of despicable ways to restrain the development of Chinese technology company, shame on u.

"shame on u"

LOL - u can't be more obvious in your partisan support of the PRC.

where is your 'shame' on the largest global threat to intellectual property of global product development (i.e. China and the PRC)?

you are embarrassing yourself.

So if I'm understanding this correctly these companies (Hik/Dahua) are on this list due to winning contracts to supply cameras etc which are then used to perpetrate human rights violations, or are these companies themselves violating human rights?

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next months if US manufacturers stop supplying components.

Hikvision and Dahua are both owned by the Chinese government which is actively engaging in human rights violations including but not limited to placing Muslims in concentration / re-education camps. They are the closest thing to the Nazis that we have seen since. They have killed more of their own civilians than the Nazis and the Communist Russians combined. Their government is terrible and they exploit the rest of the world and steal everyone’s intellectual property and knock it off for dirt cheap because they don’t pay their workforce and exploit slave labor.

Hikvision and Dahua are both owned by the Chinese government

From everything we have researched / seen on the PRC side, Dahua is not owned by the PRC government while Hikvision clearly is. There's the greater question of influence / ultimate Communist Party control but from a corporate ownership perspective, Dahua is not.

Related: Dahua And Hikvision Accept PRC Government Officials

I do not believe you are correct in regards to the Chinese government owning Dahua.

Dahua Ban Response: NOT Chinese Government Owned

Or has there been changes in the ownership?

In regards to killing their own population, which time period are you referring to?

these companies (Hik/Dahua) are on this list due to winning contracts to supply cameras etc which are then used to perpetrate human rights violations

No - the contracts are not just generic camera supply contracts, as Hikvision has falsely claimed ("Hikvision is a product supplier"). On most of these contracts, it's explicitly stated that Hikvision/Dahua will not only supply & build but also operate and maintain the systems for many years.

One example already cited by IPVM is a $46m Hikvision project in Xinjiang's Moyu County. If you take a look at the bidding document itself, the project has 1 year of construction and 9 years of operation by Hikvision before being formally handed over to police authorities:

That Hikvision project alone includes advanced cameras for a re-education camp and for almost 1,000 mosques.

Dahua also had a similar project (1 year construction/9 years operation) for a massive $686 million deal that mandated building the "convenience police stations" that Xinjiang is now infamous for.

Not related to this but certainly related to the broader PRC / US conflict, the PRC government has just announced its banning broadcasts of NBA games:

This is in response to an NBA general manager posting "fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong" on Twitter, a platform banned in the PRC.

The tension has gone way up over the last few months.

More: Decoupling coming, says the Editor in Chief of China's state-run Global Times:

It is surreal that such a prominent PRC spokesperson is discussing 'basketball decoupling'. To our industry, the same may likely be coming - decoupling of China-US surveillance equipment.

Update: Reuters has a new article out - South Korea's Hanwha likely to win from surveillance rivals' blacklisting: industry experts, citing IPVM.

That Hanwha is and will continue to gain from Hikua's issues is pretty obvious for industry people, they are the largest non-China rival offering lower-cost products. Other Korean or Taiwan companies could benefit significantly too if they increase R&D, sales and marketing spend.

The Reuters post cites an ex-Hikvision employee talking about layoffs. There was a layoff last October and various senior Hikvision USA employees have left since but there has not been any big cuts since last October that we have heard. Now with the ban taking effect plus these sanctions, it will be increasingly hard for Hikvision to continue to justify spending in the US at the levels they do, though they have the money to do so if they choose.

Lastly, Reuters pointed out Ambarella. Technically, Ambarella is a Cayman Island corporation but they and most believe Ambarella would likely be impacted. With Intel, NVIDIA and Ambarella potentially out, Huawei's Hisilicon is the likely best option for SoCs / AI chips.

UPDATE: Hikvision and Dahua both suspended trading for two days at the Shenzhen stock exchange, per official disclosures from the firms. They will resume trading on October 10 (Thursday).

Hikvision stated it has done so because "the company is fully assessing" what the sanctions "may cause the company". Dahua included no specific explanation. Recall that when sanctions were merely threatened in May, both firms' stock fell almost 10%, which is the maximum allowable limit in the PRC.

Hikvision also stated it would hold an Investor Relations call at 3:30pm tomorrow Beijing time about the sanctions, including Hikvision CEO Hu Yanghzong. IPVM will follow this closely.

UPDATE: The PRC government has responded to the sanctions, Bloomberg reports, urging the US to "immediately correct its mistake" and suggesting retaliation down the line.

PRC foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told reporters the US had “sinister intentions" for the sanctions and denied human rights abuses in Xinjiang, saying:

We urge the U.S. side to immediately correct its mistake, withdraw the relevant decision and stop interfering in China’s internal affairs

The measures taken by China to eliminate extremism from the roots are fully in line with Chinese law and international practice

China will continue to take firm and forceful measures to resolutely safeguard national sovereignty, security and development interests.

Geng Shuang also suggested China may retaliate to the sanctions, saying "stay tuned" when asked if China would hit back.

UPDATE: Megvii and SenseTime, both facial recognition providers valued in the billions, have issued responses. Dahua still has no official response aside from its notice about suspending trading for two days.

  • Megvii said "we strongly protest this decision" and would "take countermeasures in all aspects"
  • SenseTime said it "strongly opposes" the sanctions, adding "[we] develop and implement rigorous ethical standards for the use of artificial intelligence technology"

Bloomberg reports that Megvii may have its Hong Kong IPO derailed because of the move. IPVM has covered Megvii as a potential long-term threat to Hikvision and Dahua. Bloomberg writes:

Megvii’s IPO was supposed to have been the Chinese industry’s unofficial debut on the global stage. Already mothballed because of rising violence in Hong Kong, that offering now looks in question. While the startup warned in its prospectus about the unforeseen circumstances of conflict between Washington and Beijing, it never publicly addressed the prospect of getting cut off from American technology or markets.

Update: an interesting thread on twitter from Hofstra University law professor Julian Ku, who noted that using Entity List sanctions over human rights abuses is basically unprecedented and represents a "a major shift":

As Ku notes, existing US government examples of such actions are all related to terrorism, weapons proliferation, or outright fraud.

Ku also noted that the entity list sanctions "might be the least worst option for Hikvision", since they faced much more serious Magnitsky sanctions. As IPVM has explained, Magnitsky would go much further, banning Hikvision/Dahua from operating in the US and freezing any US assets:

As a dealer who sells a lot of Dahua OEM, and phasing into DW/Spectrum, what are my immediate concerns?

This doesn't prevent or limit their sales channel into the USA right?

The same product should still be available for the near future correct?

I assume at some point camera specs, performance etc may change due to them not being able to get the same components to build their cameras/NVR's?

That sum it up?

This doesn't prevent or limit their sales channel into the USA right? The same product should still be available for the near future correct?

Yes, you can still sell products from a company that carries a US government 'red flag' for human rights abuses. It won't directly block you from selling them but it likely will create other issues in how much Dahua wants to spend on the US market, what customers want to buy, etc.

I am surprised Hikvision has any employees left in the United States. Hikvision has repeatedly lied to all employees and has effectly bought there silence. Even before the layoffs they were losing people like crazy. I am not interested in hearing what China's response. Let's here from Sam Belbina, Chris Zenaty, and other US based employees.

Let's here from Sam Belbina, Chris Zenaty, and other US based employees.

Yikes, in fairness, Hikvision has a strict employee no-comment policy on politics rule, at least for US employees.

Also, by contrast, see: Hikvision VP On Muslim Oppression.

I think it is very ironic that Hikvision has a no comment rule to the press. Then they are left to defend the company to there customers without any back up. I would like to see how the US sales team is going to spin this development. They should all be looking to leave.

very ironic that Hikvision has a no comment rule to the press

No comment rules for manufacturer employees are fairly common. Hikvision's situation (government ownership, ban, sanctions) is not common.

They should all be looking to leave.

In all seriousness, they should have started that search roughly a year ago, maybe even a bit sooner. Hikvision has hit a lot of headwinds in the US, and there are not any signs of that letting up. And Dahua will fare no better. No amount of money would make me want to wear a Hikua logo right now.

Curious...if it was learned that Mercedes trucks were used to transport people in the areas of China under discussion, would they get Red Flagged?

Mercedes trucks were used to transport

No, it's not about use. Dahua and Hikvision have a billion-dollars plus of direct contracts to build and operate these systems.

It would be like if Mercedes negotiated and signed contracts directly with the Chinese government to supply and operate the trucks, makes sense?

Longse's founder shared this post on Facebook:

The irony of lawless Longse taking aim at Hikvision is a sight to behold. Related: Longse Rips Off Hikvision, Free Longse 'ONVIF' VMS Released, Partially Stolen From Milestone, Video Insight, Longse Spam

Also, Facebook is banned in China, double irony...

We have already MOSTLY moved away from Dahua and never have used a Hik device to date, not even an OEM. But this seals the deal, that quote from the Dahua director is something else. I don't think there is any justification a human being can make at this point for continuing to use any of this equipment. For us its now a blanket, we will not use that equipment. Period. Now to figure out how much its going to cost me to support our legacy customers.

Is that even a real quote for the Dahua? Seems like something no would say.

While it understandably seems like something no one would say, this is a real quote, I even notified Dahua management of it the same day the Dahua director posted it. Copied in full below:

Update: Hikvision USA has sent a 'special bulletin' to dealers. Most noteworthy parts are that they blame it on the trade war and claim that Hikvision USA is not on the list:

Hikvision concludes with its qualified support for human rights across regions. We covered this here - Hikvision: In China, We Obey PRC Human Rights Law, net/net, putting hundreds of thousands or millions in concentration camps does not violate PRC / China Communist Party human rights, so it's 'legal' when Hikvision does this in China.

As for Hikvision USA not being on the 'entity list', this is technically true but misleading. The 'entity list' is for exports so, to the extent that the transactions are within the US, they would not be, by definition, an export. However, Hikvision USA is 100% owned and controlled by Hikvision, who is on the entity list, excerpted below:

Hikvision USA not being on the 'entity list'

The only way they would be exempt from the sanctions is if they start selling Non-Hikvision and Non-Dahua cameras.

The way the 'entity list' sanctions works is that US companies cannot sell, specifically export, to companies on the list.

The other flow, HIkvision selling products is not formally blocked, only 'red flag'.

wheres the unfunny button, waste of energy that

UPDATE: Hikvision and Dahua are back to trading in Shenzhen today. Both firms' shares immediately plunged, with Hikvision dropping almost 6% and Dahua 8%.

They may recoup some of these losses by the end of the trading day or fall further. However keep in mind stocks cannot fall by more than 10% a day, per PRC law.

UPDATE: The US formally added Hikvision and Dahua to the entities list in the Federal Register on Wednesday. This means the sanctions are now officially in effect.

The federal register shows that most US tech exported to Hikvision/Dahua requires licenses that operate under a "presumption of denial." However certain categories are exempted from the presumption of denial policy and will have a "case-by-case" review, indicating a better chance of a license approval.

However, the "case-by-case" items have nothing to do with video surveillance, so it's not much of a relief:

  • 1A004.c: Nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) detection systems
  • 1A004.d: Equipment for detecting or identifying explosives residues
  • 1A995: Protective and detection equipment not “specially designed” for military use
  • 1A999.a: Detection equipment, radition
  • 1D003: “software” “specially designed” or modified to enable equipment to perform the functions of equipment controlled under section 1A004.c
  • 2A983: Explosives or detonator detection equipment, both bulk and trace based, consisting of an automated device, or combination of devices for automated decision making
  • 2D983: Software” “specially designed” or modified for the “development”, “production” or “use” of equipment controlled by 2A983
  • 2E983: “Technology” “specially designed” or modified for the “development”, “production” or “use” of equipment controlled by 2A983, or the “development” of software controlled by 2D983.

Worth noting, however, that other forms of leeway exist. For example, while Huawei was also added to the Entity List in May, "Trump's administration gave the green light last week to start approving licenses for a few American companies to bypass the curbs," Reuters reports. These are for "exports to Huawei of non-sensitive items that are readily replaced by foreign competitors".

Didn't Saudi Arabia admit to dismembering a journalist? I think they have a rather strong past history of human rights abuses. But they are our friend and we are helping defend them with American soldiers, American Tax Dollars, and even looking to permit the largest IPO in history of their national oil company on our stock exchange? But every day, each one of us buys a product that they produce.

I agree, human rights violations are against everything our "democracy" was founded on. But if you are going to hold China to one standard, but look the other way when buying products from other countries that squash democracy and stand against our values, then what's the argument?

Human rights should be protected in any country that the US assists. Thankfully we don't have American soldiers helping protect the Chinese Communist Party. But we do have American boys and girls protecting Saudi interests even though they prosecute Christians and rule with an authoritarian regime?

Dahua USA sent a letter to its dealers:

I don't get it!

"Dahua and Hikvision have been sanctioned by the US government for human rights abuses"

and at the same time pulling out the military from Siria.

elected officials in this country are more concerned with their own ego than the lives of the innocent. I’m not sure why the geniuses in the executive branch single out one human rights violation and ignore and embrace others. Except their friends in large government contractors like Motorola don’t have products that compete with oil giants or anything of value in Syria. Only way to make that investment pay off is find a way to hit foreign businesses. Just a matter of time until they put some tariffs on European businesses and Axis feels the pain as well.

at least manufacturing is picking up here as a result. Oh wait, that is fake news.

Just a matter of time until they put some tariffs on European businesses and Axis feels the pain as well.

this comment detracts from your hyperbolic comments that precede them.

it's a throw off comment that you thought was snarky, and instead devalued your original position.

Please provide any actual evidence that the U.S. government is acting in conjunction with Motorola.

these two things are so unrelated as to make your comment ridiculous.

Typical IPVM propaganda victim.

Does anyone else see the irony in this. The U.S. Government taking the moral high ground after totally abandoning the Kurdish people who were their allies only a few months ago to be slaughtered by the Turks. Still continuing a relationship with Saudi Arabia, who murdered Khashoggi in cold blood, and who treat women worse than animals.

I wonder if there are any U.S. products in those prisons...?

please turn off CNN and take a deep breath.

No deep breath required, just find it mildly amusing that the US Government take the moral high ground when turning a blind eye to some of the worst atrocities in recent memory because it suits them or it means they continue to get cheap oil.

taking the moral high ground after totally abandoning the Kurdish people who were their allies only a few months ago to be slaughtered by the Turks.

this is certainly the position of the left - who, amazingly to me, have historically been the party of not wanting wars with other nations and putting out own young soldiers in peril.

so what changed besides Trump being president?

I personally don't like any human badness. but there are things that I can control and there are things that I can not.

I just try and figure out which is which.

this is certainly the position of the left...

and the right.

I am far from being a tree hugging leftie. I am a conservative at heart, I guess I just see how hypocritical the U.S. Government is. Both sides of US politics have been guilty of it.

They support regimes that have killed, subjugated, repressed and tortured it's own citizens. They have started wars based on false intelligence, illegally without UN backing. (Pretty sure there were no WMD's) All the while crying about China.

Just so you know I think China is also authoritarian state that represses it's own citizens... I just think it's funny that the US denounce them while supporting Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war (that worked out well for them)

This situation we are in with China is about the USA staying #1 in power, nothing more.

ok... So Hikvision and Dauha have been put on the Entity list and can not buy american made components. However, they are allowed to still sale there product in the United States... This feels a little hollow- I believe both companies should be banned from doing any business at all within the United States. That would include banning the products from being sold, confiscating all property with in the United Stated. (Which includes the HQ located in Industry,CA and any intellectual property stored on American servers) and banning employment from American citizens.

USA Today columnist Dan Wolken's response to LeBron's comments on Rockets GM tweet:


On behalf of the 327 million American citizens who generally believe that freedom is good and authoritarian regimes are less good, let me apologize to LeBron James of the Los Angeles Lakers.

It must have been a real inconvenience to take that 13-hour chartered flight to China last week and hang around a luxury hotel in Shanghai for five days while promotional appearances got canceled. Surely it was awful to be in the middle of an international firestorm where the stakes were so high: Would preseason NBA games be played or not?

And to think, LeBron and his teammates were so disrupted all because Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey had the temerity to send a relatively anodyne tweet supporting a protest that pretty much every one of his countrymen — whether on the left or right side of the political spectrum — would agree with over the rights Hong Kongers were promised when the United Kingdom handed control of the territory over to China in 1997.

Because as James tweeted on Monday night, trying to clarify comments he made to the media earlier in the evening: “My team and this league just went through a difficult week. I think people need to understand what a tweet or statement can do to others. And I believe nobody stopped and considered what would happen. Could have waited a week to send it.”

LeBron James@KingJames

My team and this league just went through a difficult week. I think people need to understand what a tweet or statement can do to others. And I believe nobody stopped and considered what would happen. Could have waited a week to send it.

Right on, LeBron. Millions in Hong Kong are fearful that their entire way of life is about to change, and thousands upon thousands of protesters are risking their lives to make a stand for their freedom and their future. Why would Morey think about them when your preseason vacation and your bank account is at stake? How selfish of him.

If only Morey had done what you did Monday, LeBron, and tacitly admit that the only thing that really matters is your ability to sell shoes and market "Space Jam 2" in a country of 1.4 billion, we could have had an intellectually honest discussion about doing business in China and the cost of free speech in a country where only propaganda is tolerated.

The problem, LeBron, is that you’ve helped construct a world in which NBA players have been incentivized to criticize our leaders and our government here at home. And there’s nothing wrong with that, by the way. It’s part of who we are, and there’s a large segment of people who agree with you when you call President Donald Trump “u bum” on Twitter and say that going to the White House as an NBA champion used to be a great honor “until you showed up” as you did on Sept. 23, 2017.

LeBron James@KingJames

U bum @StephenCurry30 already said he ain't going! So therefore ain't no invite. Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!

You couldn’t have waited a week to send that tweet, LeBron, because it’s what you believed. And whatever backlash or consequences were going to come from sending that tweet for either you or the NBA, you were willing to deal with it because you presumably believed that expressing your opinion on the matter contributed to a greater good.

But when you go that hard at our own elected officials, LeBron, it is difficult to reconcile that with the idea that China of all countries should be above reproach for anyone who works in the NBA.

And make no mistake, LeBron, that’s exactly what you were suggesting on Monday when you criticized Morey for not giving any consideration to “the consequences and ramifications of the tweet” while making it clear you didn’t want to discuss the substance of what he was saying.

Don’t take this the wrong way, LeBron, but we really didn’t need you to point that out to us. I think we all understand that when Morey hit the send button, he wasn’t thinking that this would cause an international incident and potentially jeopardize billion-dollar deals.

The thing is, LeBron, we’ve come to expect more of you. You’re obviously an intelligent person, a compassionate person and a socially conscious person. At this point in your life and career, it’s part of your brand. But to present that face to an American audience while essentially admitting that all you care about when it comes to the rest of the world is cashing those big checks — well, let’s just say it doesn’t look very good on you.


UPDATE: Reuters reports that US pension funds are reviewing their investments in Hikvision, as the investor community begins to see the firm as "the corporate poster child for enabling Chinese human rights abuses". That quote comes from Roger Robinson, CEO of risk consultancy RWR, who told Reuters:

Hikvision has emerged as the corporate poster child for enabling Chinese human rights abuses, with its surveillance cameras visible atop the walls of detention camps incarcerating some one million or more Uighurs in Xinjiang

According to Reuters, some examples of US pensions reviewing their investments are:

  • California State Teachers’ Retirement System, which has $24 million of Hikvision stock
  • Florida Retirement System, about $7.5 million of stock
  • New York State Teachers Retirement System, holds about ~$350,000 of stock

To be clear, these investments are typically not deliberate, but made automatically based on widely followed index fund benchmarks like the MSCI which added Hikvision last year. While the Entity List sanctions do not prohibit US investments, they do raise human rights concerns and any transactions with them are generally considered by the US government as a "red flag" (as mentioned in our post).

Currently, 6.19% of Hikvision is owned by non-PRC shareholders, a slight drop from 6.36% when the US sanctions passed. Over time, foreign ownership has declined substantially, standing at 11.33% in June 2018.

What human rights abuse?US is loosing business everywhere. If they think this will deter us, they have another thing coming. Gone are the days we would buy a flir thermal camera with zero analytics for 5000 usd instead of just buying a dahua with all the IVS for less than half the price.

I believe that's a real goal of all that stuff that happens in the US now. They don't really care about human rights. The Us government fights for the rights of muslims in China? Funny. Politicians just use that as a bonus when they fight with competitors.

Update: Ambarella says it believes it can continue to ship to Dahua and Hikvision so long as those chips are not made in the US:

While the Entity List Rule will negatively impact the Company’s ability to ship items subject to BIS regulations, including US-produced system-on-chip, or SoC, products to the listed entities, at this time, the Company expects that it will continue to be able to ship foreign-produced products to the listed entities, including SoCs responsible for a majority of the Company’s current revenue with those newly listed entities as well as the Company’s recently introduced computer vision SoCs [emphasis added]

We do not know the nuances of export regulations but there certainly has been some debate about what qualifies for export control. We will update as we have more information.

Just a FYI, we are a customer of Dahua in Europe and use a large FX company which is HQ'ed in London but also has large presence in USA to trigger a payment to Dahua.

A payment went for a compliance check (which isn't common as we do a lot of payments with them) with there FX team and we have now been told that they won't be facilitating payments to companies on the sanctioned list of which Dahua is one!

Didn't think these sanctions would be translating into actual actions this quickly into day to day activities!

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