#1 IP Camera Problem

It isnt that IP is very expensive, its just that analog is very cheap.

Somethig for consideration, I have been a member of ipvm for a few years now and most of the articles, comments, idealistic of the group are focused ( perhaps the articles that i find most compellig to read) on commercial sales. With that being said and as a resondant to the poll I indicated PRICE PRICE PRICE was a huge factor to selling IP cameras. However knowing the ipvm membership is made up of a varying group of people, integrators, dealers, resellers, distributers, manufacturers etc., I dont think the group captures the exploding market of residential use of installed video surveillance. I personally feel the IP growth numbers in our business however we dont sell to the resi market or provide a retail marketplace for such.

However bigger than all us combined, are the Costcos, BJ, Walmarts, and Amazons who are liquidating these import brand analog surveillance in box systems directly to the homeowner with simple installations and telephone tech support with typical if you dont like it take it down and send it back for a refund business models. So to some point the comments of Analog is flying off the shelfs may not be entirely incorrect.

We often get calls for installed systems for home owners with this false sense that they can get installed what they have seen online or in the store to something that they could keep within thier impulse buying habits.

So all the clarity, ease of deployment, better features, documented research, opinions, etc, isnt going to stop many of these resi buyers picking one up at the local depot instead of goingout for a night on the town, when there so cheap.

Hi Joe, nice observations, thanks! I agree that we emphasize the commercial side of the market more than residential. A few years back we did a series on consumer/budget IP cameras but it generated a lot less reader interest than our professional coverage. As such, we de-emphasized it.

That said, I also agree with you that residential is growing and that places like Costco are becoming more and more important (see our recent discussion on Costco).

We are going to definitely do new tests on products focused on the residential / low end market (e.g., Dropcam test to be released next week, and certainly short term plans to test Coscto kits, etc.). Let us know if you have specific recommendations.

Oh, also in regards to cheaper SDI... I was thinking about this when I was on the road yesterday and forgot by the time I got home:

For me, SDI *might* become a small-system option, IF... IF they make it work over UTP (I know, I know, always in an upcoming version). Coax is simply not viable or acceptable for new installs anymore. A run of UTP can be used for almost any kind of signal (except SDI). A piece of coax can be used for... well, analog, or SDI. That's about it. Well, ethernet as well, with EoC adapters, but why would I put in coax just to do that?

Even on retrofits and upgrades, the only time we run signal over coax is if it can't be replaced. Cat5e/Cat6 is simply more versatile all around; it's easier to work with; it's smaller, so it's easier to get more of it through a tight space... and it's cheaper. There's no reason to use SDI for any new designs, because it requires the use of nearly-obsolete cable infrastructure.

Even in a retrofit, it's still a crap shoot as to whether it will work 100% with some existing cable. "Easy"? Sure, as long as you don't have bad cable somewhere.

@ Matt & Keefe,

If I understand correctly, I connect all IP cameras and NVR to a separate switching hub. Then I connect that hub to the modem/router of the client.

But, if I use a second router with DHCP disabled, isn't it the same as a switching hub? I wasn't aware routers had less bandwidth availability.

@Ronald: "If I understand correctly, I connect all IP cameras and NVR to a separate switching hub. Then I connect that hub to the modem/router of the client."

That's correct (and it's just called a "switch", not a switching hub).

"if I use a second router with DHCP disabled, isn't it the same as a switching hub?"

Functionally, yes.

"I wasn't aware routers had less bandwidth availability."

We're talking about the amount of data the switch or router can chunk around internally between its ports. You could have two switches that have five gigabit ports, but one might only have capacity for 2Gb/s internally, while the other can to 10Gb/s internally - the former will be more likely to drop packets and have connection problems when under load.

Routers (especially consumer models) are typically designed mainly to move data between client systems and the Internet, where Internet connections are usually limited to well under 100Mb/s, and so won't usually be designed for heavy data flow internally.

Also, as Keefe mentions, a PoE switch for the cameras will make installation a lot easier as you then don't need to run separate power to the cameras. I have yet to find a router that has PoE LAN ports.

This is a configuration I've used frequently on one customer's sites, and it's worked very well:

You CAN use a second NIC in the DVR to connect to the LAN, but I've found it generally unncessary.

@ keefe,

The cameras are currently hooked up to a switch. The switch is hooked up to a DHCP disabled router (hey, I needed extra ports as the switch had only 8 ports). The router is hooked up to the ISP modem/router combo.

The mistake I made was to migrate the VMS software to a new PC which is connected to the ISP modem/router combo unit. Initially, the VMS was hooked up to the switch.

And yes, the cameras are set up with fixed IP addresses via the Sony software. Port forwarding was done via the ISP modem/router combo unit.

As for Zeroconf, I've never heard of it.

@ Matt,

Thanks for the comprehensive insight. I'll have to pay attention to the GB/s spec of the switch.

A POE switch could not be utilized as the Sony IR MP cameras need more current. Yes, it's described in their user manuals that if the cameras need heating and IR, one needs to supply power to the cameras directly and not via POE.

Ronald, like I said earlier, if you're only talking a few cameras, your router or a cheaper switch may be sufficient.

On one site, however, I had five 1080p cameras on one 8-port GbE "desktop" switch, which linked down to another 8-port GbE "desktop" switch (both very cheap D-Link consumer stuff provided by the customer) that carried 5 more 1080p cameras, the DVR, and the internet uplink... and those cameras were constantly, randomly dropping off until I knocked their bitrates down to 1Mb/s. Both switches were gigabit-rated, but they simply couldn't handle to combined traffic of all the cameras.

@ Matt

Are you saying only POE switches are reliable with IP cameras? As mentioned before, the cameras involved could not use POE due to excessive current requirements (I.R. illuminators + heater).

BTW, I installed three 1.3MP and three 3MP cameras at my client's location.

"Are you saying only POE switches are reliable with IP cameras?"

Uhhh... no. Only saying the switch has to be able to handle the traffic. You can't go by just the port speed rating, you have to look at the amount of data the switch can move around internally. In most non-enterprise environments, switches only need to handle large amounts traffic in small bursts... with surveillance, it's constant.

Think of the switch as a road system: the ports are your on-ramps and off-ramps to the highway, the "backplane" is the highway connecting them. If you only have a few cars using it, it doesn't matter if you have a four lane on-ramp to a two lane highway. But if you've got a ton of commuter and truck traffic, those two lanes are going to get clogged really quick - you need a wider highway to keep things moving effectively.

PoE is irrelevant to the traffic issue; in this case, to continue the analogy, it's merely having a gas station at each on-ramp: convenient place to fuel up before getting on the highway, but doesn't mean you can't fuel up elsewhere (you just might need to go a little out of your way).

@ Matt,

So, the bandwidth is the crucial spec to consider. What bandwidths are available?

There's no specific number to consider... just when comparing specs between switches, look for terms like backplane, switching capacity, or switching fabric.