#1 Threat 2015 - China

I have been using a Dahua DSS7016D and I would say to many vendors on this forum. Watch out, the price point, features and functionality will, after a couple more firmware revsions, force the big end of down. The race to the bottom is on. By and large, this little box is fantastic.

How many of you have an iPhone...

How many of you have the GooPhone?

Now if the GooPhone does everything that the iPhone does, and more.. At 1/8th the price why doesn't everyone have one?

From where I sit, it's the industry sales people who are scared to deal with high prices, not the customers unwilling to pay them.

Honestly, every western MFG will experience HUGE contractions in the near future (in my opinion).. If I were an investor in any of these companies (Avigilon, Axis, Arecont, etc) I would get out NOW... The cost curve is bending in the wrong direction, these technologies are not luxuries anymore and customers expect lower price points. These sales reps (RIP) are going to get railroaded. We left those monopolies last year and I'm resentful of the huge margins they were making off OUR WORK!! They manufacture much of their crap from China, so why not go with the best quality to value price point possible? I don't trust a mfg that sells me a camera for $1,000 that I know now isn't truly worth even $500. We've dropped our prices, increased our margins, and improved our customers outcomes after dropping all western mfgs from our lineup. Good riddance

Not many - in fact only a few Mfg's make their products in North America. Avigilon has a great Mfg facitity with state of the art equipment - for example. The North American Mfg's have inherent costs that are much higher than the Asian Mfg's and will take many years to level out - in fact a lot of North American Mfg's will be hard pressed to compete.

With that said, since most product is made in Asia today QC and support becomes the responsibility of the company that offers Chinese made products in their respective market. We should shift this conversation to customer and Integrator requirements and look at the advantages and/or disadvantages. We spec out our camera lens options and features and have our cameras made in China. we must take responsibility for support, QC and features - 2.8-16mm domes - based on customer and Integrators requirements or feedback.

Example - Integrator A sells traditional (Western brand) 2mp exterior dome cameras with 3-9mm, IR & varifocal lens (motorized) for approximately $899.00 US-list. They also sell a 2mp - 4m fixed bullet for $399.00 US-list.

Integrator B sells a non Western brand but offers a 2mp - 2.8-16m dome with IR - (manual lens) at $399.00 US List and a 2mp Bullet with a 4m fixed lens & dual matrix IR for $199.00 US list.

First - and it's a big one - we will assume they have comparable image quality P2P, etc.. and both Integrators use the same VMS.

Assuming that both do a a professional job of designing the project, the 2 designs should look similar. Integrator A will have an easier time with the domes since they are motorized. Integrator B will have more flexibility getting the right coverage with a 2.8-16m dome and might be ableto use less cameras.

Pros and cons are debatable - we will assume that Integrator A gets a 35% discount from Disty and Integrator B buys directly from the source and gets 40%. The interesting part is support - Integrator A has a time tested (Wester Mfg) solution and few Security directors will loose their job for going with the norm. Integrator B on the other hand will need to provide support and their solution will stand on their reputation. In my experience - the End User buys from the Integrator based on their reputation. In today's evolving market the SMB & a few F1000 accounts no longer insist on specific cameras. This is a news flash to most Mfg's - the Integrator "owns" most of the cutomer base.

Support options for both integrators on a larger project can include advance replacement or onsite spares etc.. Integrator B is very well protected and confident knowing their cost for repolacement can easisly be factored in to a project allowing them to be very creative with their support.

The net of this long winded post is that we have a new breed of Integrator that is willing to be creative and design support that fits the End User's requirements - the cameras becaome a commodity as they should. Integrator B may become the new norm.

Hi

Again somewhat amused by the statement that "any camera can be made to display great static pictures". This is the kind of atitude that has gotten more than a munufacturer to the gates of oblivion/bankruptcy. Wake up! Hikvision and Dahua routinely match or surpass celebrated brands PQ (Picture Quality) and at a rok-bottom price and ... what are those features we are talking about? How important are they on the average?

I am with the poster on "integrator Bs. Charge for the integration/installation/implementation, not the hardware that has become commodity.

I sigh at the thought that this is somehow news (in 2015) that price pressure from Chinese manufactured products would undermine the traditional manufacturer’s ability to compete—even in the US. As others have said, one could see it coming a mile away.

Chinese manufacturing has matured greatly in the past ten years. I find the Chinese products CMs make to be of extremely high quality. The Chinese/Taiwanese CMs are accommodating to requirements, schedule, and cost—even at the relatively low volumes we deal with in the surveillance industry. The manufacturers in China/Taiwan are increasingly competitive with each other in terms of price and capability. So it should be no surprise that Chinese branded products are cheap and effective. In terms of software (speaking of embedded software on cameras) they have build tremendous capability as well—with close ties to the SoC manufactures and plenty of experience and qualified firmware engineers in-country from all over consumer electronics.

The capabilities of Chinese manufactures actually presents opportunity to other ‘surveillance’ companies. The CM’s in China are perfectly willing to work with us in building high quality products to our specifications and requirements. There’s no reason (say) US manufactures can’t compete on price—we just need to find margins in places other than the best dealer price on an individual camera box. The addiction to margins has been a needle in the non-Chinese manufacturer’s arm for some time now.

What’s missing in the market is no longer a sweet camera at a low price. So business models based on individual camera sales are going to be a bust. Actually, the term “manufacturer” gives away the heart of the issue. As long as we see ourselves as only a manufacturing company, we’re lost.

There is still great opportunity for companies built on the principle of being providers of surveillance product and services (compared to companies that want to manufacture boxes). These are companies with strong integrator and channel relationships. They have good branding/marketing, full lines of products across the industry, and best-of-bread systemization of those products. The challenge is to step up a level from margins built on the sale of individual products to the sale of entire systems that provide more value than the sum of their parts.

Somebody on this thread mentioned the difference between an iPhone and a gooPhone. The difference isn’t in the phones themselves but in the ecosystem Apple’s created around personal devices, media, and computers. This backed by strong distribution channels, and one of the strongest lifestyle brands in the world. Apple does compete on phones—with good designs and high quality products (made in China).