Huawei To Be “Top Three Global Position” in Video Surveillance

By Charles Rollet, Published Oct 29, 2018, 09:08am EDT (Info+)

Huawei - China’s biggest networking gear and smartphone maker - plans to become one of the top three global video surveillance manufacturers in the next 3 to 5 years, it has announced at a conference in China.

Huawei is effectively saying that they will become bigger than every video surveillance manufacturer except for Hikvision and Dahua, even leapfrogging Axis Communications who does more than $1 billion in annual revenue.

However, with scrutiny of Chinese video surveillance at an unprecedented high due to cybersecurity and human rights issues, Huawei’s expansion is far from certain. Indeed, Hikvision believes that Huawei will quit the video surveillance market in a few years.

In this note, we examine:

  • What Huawei announced for video surveillance
  • How Huawei overall compares to the video surveillance market and large manufacturers like Hikvision and Dahua
  • Why Huawei sees opportunity in video surveillance
  • What Huawei plans to offer in video surveillance
  • How Chinese government spending could help
  • Where Safe Cities could help
  • What challenges they face in US and Australia
  • Why Hikvision believes Huawei will quit in a few years
  • What threat Huawei poses to Dahua and Hikvision

What ****** *********

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Threats ** ***** *** *********

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Poll / ****

Comments (35)

Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | 10/29/18 02:34pm

Shouldn’t we measure Huawei’s current size, (in the surveillance industry), by not only the cameras/recorders it sells, but by the SOC’s it sells as well?  

 

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 10/29/18 02:56pm

You can if you want.

I don't think it makes sense though since Huawei is a top provider, by revenue, of SoCs but a modest provider, by revenue, of cameras/recorders. Combining them is a little like adding seeds and apples...

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

10/29/18 08:32pm

If Hanwha stopped selling IP cameras tomorrow, it wouldn't scratch their $60B in sales, yet they continue to invest in talent, technology, and manufacturing so one day it will be a significant part of their P&L. 

Hikau will have a major threat if Huawei takes the same approach and they are already producing complementary products. 

 

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 10/29/18 10:00pm

Hikua will have a major threat if Huawei takes the same approach and they are already producing complementary products.

Here comes Hikuawei...

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 10/29/18 10:06pm

Are you happy that you made Hikua a word? I resisted it for a long time but there's a convenience to it, rather than saying "Hikvision and Dahua" repeatedly.

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to John Honovich | 10/30/18 01:08am

Are you happy that you made Hikua a word?

I’ll be happier when I unload this dog ;)

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Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 10/30/18 05:46pm

If you can get John to establish Motorola and Avigilon as Areola I will buy the domain.

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Attila Szucs

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 10/31/18 10:33am

Motolon would be nice as well and also put them in the right relation visually:D

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 10/29/18 10:11pm

If Hanwha stopped selling IP cameras tomorrow, it wouldn't scratch their $60B in sales

I did not realize that Hanwha overall was that big but various sources put Hanwha at $50+ billion in revenue.

In that case, it is an interesting comparison.

There is also the Cisco comparison. Recall a decade ago, the dread the industry had about Cisco taking over video surveillance. I called it right back in 2008: How does Cisco Video Surveillance affect me?:

Cisco will be a minor force in video surveillance primarily selling video surveillance solutions into existing Cisco accounts.

Cisco cannot be dominant because their core strengths and product strategy are poor solutions to the key challenges of video surveillance. However, their product offering will be sufficient for large footprint facilities. Given their strong channel relationships and this fit, they will have some success 

Note: if you were not in the industry back then, it is hard to appreciate how much angst Cisco caused back then. The CTO of Cisco keynoted ISC West 2007 and it was like some weird premature, ultimately failed, coronation.

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to John Honovich | 10/29/18 10:50pm

Thinking about this further, there is a clear difference in the Hanwha and Cisco approach to video surveillance.

With Cisco, it was all about how to sell more networking equipment. They never really cared about being strong in video surveillance, just how video surveillance could help them drive more of their core product sales.

By contrast, with Hanwha, Hanwha Techwin (i.e., surveillance) just cares about selling surveillance. They are not thinking about how they upsell tank or missile customers or whatever else they do with surveillance cameras.

To that end, if Huawei thinks about video surveillance as just an ancillary way to sell more of their 'core' products, I doubt they will have much success. But if Huawei lets the video surveillance group focus on its own sales, it has a strong chance of being a major player (I mean not in the US but...).

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Walter Holm

IPVMU Certified | In reply to John Honovich | 02/23/19 12:04am

I would like to note that Huawei uses SPB in their networking which is a superior tech.  Although I don't believe they have the advantages that Extreme networks has with the purchase of the Avaya VSP tech with multicast (yet), they have the infrastructure for it.

Cisco is still traditional networking and their many iterations of their fabric; are all really incompatible with multicast.  Cisco is just not well designed for surveillance on the networking side but they figured that out very late (they believed they could do it).

Huawei actually has the potential for great network pairing with surveillance.

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Walter Holm | 02/23/19 03:56am

Cisco [switches] are all really incompatible with multicast...

really?

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Walter Holm

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 02/23/19 09:58pm

Yes in converged or large scale multicast deployments, yes.  Their fabic cannot handle the multicast well at all.  At only L2 with no fabric and smaller designs, sure it can handle it with little trouble, but so can many other vendors.

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Walter Holm | 02/23/19 10:56pm

Would Cisco agree?

I’m only asking because if Cisco is actually “incompatible with multicast” it would seem fraudulent to represent otherwise.

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Walter Holm

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 03/01/19 03:51pm

Of course they wouldn't, they told a customer once that it could all be done and 5 years and 1/2 million dollars later, still a network that cannot handle a dozen multicast clients in a converged network.

They have failed in competitions to provide converged multicast solutions as well.  They have great videos and on paper its fine, but in practice and with survellience cameras, forget it.  Even their specific solutions fail at <1000 cameras (the CPU on the switch is pegged and cannot handle any other traffic).

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Walter Holm | 03/04/19 04:31am

Even their specific solutions fail at <1000 cameras...

Only with Cisco cameras ;)

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Walter Holm

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 03/04/19 09:23pm

The only benefit (maybe) would be advantage of recognizing the camera.  Even then, multicast is multicast, it would crash their switch just the same.

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Quan DANG

10/30/18 01:14am

Oh come on! This is a famous move in Chinese “Art Of War” tactics.

In South East Asia, Huawei is known as Chinese PLA/Gov’ owned business, copying Cisco technology for long time.  Now that Hik banning move is increasing globally , i bet a large amount of Hik’s production will be transferred to Huawei. 

“Same wine, different bottle!“

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Campbell Chang

In reply to Quan DANG | 10/30/18 03:37am

Given that Huawei was banned from a number of national telecom projects across the globe well before the Hik/Dahua ban was even a scratching on someones notepad, I highly doubt that there will be anything like that at all.

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to Campbell Chang | 10/30/18 03:52am

The article itself states Huawei/Hisilicon provides 60% of all processors to CCTV. I thinks as I stated its more like 95%. But even if i'm wrong and its 60%, they already have a clear and decisive advantage.

Makers in China don't innovate. Hisilicon by de- facto (Huawei) provides THE solution. They all click on this feature, that feature, 20FPS at 4.0MP, 30FPS at 3.0MP, you get the point. Hisilicon is in charge of our industry right now as it specifically applies to China made goods. And who owns Hisilicon?

Dahua does something different than Hik? than the others?
Hardly. Its just not advertised. Its the same platform as ALL China made NVR/XVR.
All of our standalone NVR and IPC are all the same. Moderate differences in the appearance of the GUI, but its all Hisilicon. Accept it and be at peace my young Jedi.

Huawei can and likely will own this market soon. Assuming they want it.
I offered 100-1 odds. Take the bet.

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Gerald Spradlin

10/30/18 02:19am

I would give all of you 100 to 1 odds Huawei indeed achieves this lofty goal.
I'll state they overtake Dahua and land second only to Hikvision. 
This article indicates Hisilicon DSP represents 60% of the processor market in CCTV. I would opine more like 95%. I cant locate a single standalone NVR or DVR that isnt using Hisilicon. I am including Korea and Taiwan. 

I visit China on average 3-4 times a year and have done so for 19 years now.
I have seen Hisilicons DSP facility, have seen the mega structure of Huawei. I cant see Dahua even attempting to stop Huawei. Maybe this news explains why Dahua's share price has plummeted from 30RMB to 11 RMB in this last 52 week period. Think about that, Dahua has lost a stunning 67% market cap THIS YEAR.
In simpler terms, Dahua was worth 12.7 BILLION USD this year. They are now down to a market cap worth of 4.6 Billion USD. Investors seemingly know something we don't.

As IPVM so adeptly points out, Hik is partially owned if not controlled by the Chinese government so I view Hiks exposure to Huawei's mission as less severe. The Chinese government likely offers Hik some level of support to maintain their dominance. Dahua? Simply not as important to the government. 

End of the day?

If a Western company finds adequate funding, offers a solution other than Hisilicon, does so at a price the market can bear? They can take out both Dahua and Hik in the USA.
No worries on Huawei. Our government likely never lets them sell here in real numbers.
And that's a good decision. Huawei cannot be given access to the USA.

As we all know, the only requirement to buy/distribute/install Dahua or Hikvision is have a pulse. Zero barriers to entry. I've seen New/Current Dahua and Hik at fantastic prices for sale at Chinese flea markets in Shenzhen and Hangzhou. No joke. I passionately believe a Western innovator will emerge, maybe a silicon valley opportunist. If our industry truly does grow as anticipated, the opportunities are vast for a newcomer if standards set. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edward Knoch

10/30/18 07:50am

I’m recalling a horrible entry by another networking company in years past - you remember - CISCO. They launched an acquisition under their brand name - and charged a premium for that name - for a horrid product. I think companies should focus on their core competencies and partner to expansion. Additionally, not being able to tap into the US market is definitely an immediate disadvantage. 

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | 10/30/18 10:26am

This would be relatively easy to accomplish.  

Buying Hik or Dahua outright would instantly make you #1 or #2...

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 10/30/18 02:19pm

Buying Hik or Dahua outright would instantly make you #1 or #2...

I doubt the Chinese government is willing to sell Hikvision... Also, Hikvision market cap is ~$32 billion, even after the recent steep drop.

By contrast, Dahua's market cap is ~$4.7 billion, has a private controlling shareholder (Fu) and Dahua's new CEO is from Huawei. That said, Dahua's a mess (if we know that, surely Huawei inside of China knows that). If the Huawei 'wolf' culture is legit, they would be much more inclined just to attack Dahua head on.

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to John Honovich | 10/31/18 12:57am

Reminds me of I think 2015. Might have been 2014.
Dahua had an apparent squabble with Hisilicon and without telling us sent me a 40 footer max container loaded with DVR using Grain Media DSP. Part number changed from XXX-S1 to XXX-S2 or S3.  Only clue we had they switched DSP.  25% RMA, video quality rivaled a time lapse VCR. It was a disaster.

I agree with you John.
Huawei would never pay the typical premium to purchase Dahua. They'll just refuse to sell them Hisilicon DSP or raise their cost until they smother to death.

I wonder if Axis and Avigilon have sent Dahua and Hik flowers, chocolates and Porsche's and a private jet membership with Netjets for making their businesses this easy and profitable of late. CEO's MUST be pinching themselves lately.

 

 

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Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security
10/30/18 01:10pm

Great Article. Huawei is a sleeper hit. Simply put, Huawei (via Hisilicon) has the upper hand in the low cost surveillance market already. They may not be the biggest yet, but for lack of better terms, they have all of the Chinese manufacturers by the gonads. This is what makes the market very boring right now.

Huawei pretty much already controls the market, but just in a second hand sort of way. They can easily dominate the market if they want to via hardware like cameras and DVR's. Most low cost IP cameras, DVR and NVR's have Hisilicon chips in them. 

Anybody that is familiar with the Chinese surveillance market probably has noticed that when new technology or a new feature comes out, every manufacturer seems to come out with the same exact features and technologies at the same time. This is usually because Hisilicon has come out with a new chip. All cameras and DVR do pretty much the same thing in China now. The only thing that differentiates Chinese manufacturers based on value now are:
#1) Quality of Housings
#2) User Interfaces

 

It wouldnt be anything for Hisilicon to put their chips inside some hardware and assemble a camera or DVR.  Chances are, it may even be a better product since they will program it to work how it was designed to work. The ball is in their court if they want to dominate and it wont be too difficult for them to do so.

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to Sean Nelson | 10/31/18 12:49am

Great Post Sean.
Accurate.

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John Honovich

IPVM | 10/30/18 02:32pm

Sean and Gerald,

Good feedback on Huawei. I agree with your points about Huawei's dominance in low-cost surveillance devices via their Hisilicon chips.

However, Huawei has repeatedly publicly stated a focus on large-scale video surveillance projects, i.e., the opposite of the devices / market that Huawei's Hisilicon chips have done so well in.

I do not disagree with you about Huawei's potential to be disruptive as a low-cost video surveillance box seller (i.e., finished cameras and recorders) but Huawei is not showing any public signals yet of going there.

Nonetheless, I agree with you, if Huawei did, they could be a huge threat to both Dahua and Hikvision, in particular, because as you both point out, they already control the core component to building those devices and have their own expertise at distributing products to mass markets.

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to John Honovich | 10/31/18 12:47am

When I first met with Uniview in Hangzhou and toured their facility I was given the grand tour and spent the next several hours being presented with their history to date. Bear in mind, Bain Capital owned them at this juncture and I felt at least somewhat calm knowing that an American firm had control now.

Huawei/Hisilcon FOUNDED Uniview. UNV management sales pitch to the four company members with me on this trip went above and beyond highlighting this advantage to persuade us to leave Dahua. 

Impressive presentation frankly.
Chief engineers present and they explained that since we designed the Hisilicon DSP used in nearly all NVR and DVR in CCTV globally, we have the upper hand. In fact Gerald, many of the senior leadership from Huawei/Hisilicon moved over to the Uniview division when Uniview first launched. Many senior engineers are still with the Uniview design team.

My point is at the time Huawei/Hisilicon founded and launched Uniview, they were selling to Dahua and Hikvision, and seemingly every other China maker.
The "conflict of interest" and potential loss of revenue from the majors wasn't a concern.
THey'd still own Uniview but the quick cash from Bain Capital too enticing it appears.
Now that Bain Capital sold off Uniview to a Chinese operator, all bets are off in my opinion.
I see these responses and many opine it doesnt make sense for Huawei to compete with their customers so no way Huawei enters our market directly. This is China. It never makes sense. Remember, the entire country is an infant with respect to Capitalism.
Apple has been in business LONGER than the entirety of China has been adopting a more liberal approach to capitalism. They are simply in their infancy. 

China Blocking IPVM.
Could you imagine if Apple, Bose, or Porsche, whomever, convinced Congress to block Consumer Reports because it hurt sales of a deficient product? China in my view admitted guilt, admitted no defense to our observations when they blocked our views. That's immaturity and inexperience reacting. They'll figure it out. 200 years from now.

 

 

 

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: Remember, The Entire Country (China) Is An Infant With Respect To Capitalism.

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Max Shumeyko

10/30/18 02:44pm

I am not sure about the year 2023 but IMHO as chipset manufacturers, they have really high chances to move into Top 5 or even into Top 3.

I believe it is possible. For that reason recently we integrated Huawei cameras into IP Video System Design Tool.

In fact, I am surprised why they were waiting for so long. 

 

 

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Undisclosed Integrator #3

10/30/18 11:17pm

The interesting thing here is that we're now seeing a willingness for the Chinese to cannibalize their existing customers to sell more directly.

 

1. Hikua once sold solely through OEMs

2. Hikua launched branded product to compete against their OEMs and others

3. Now Huawei (Hisilicon) is selling cameras

 

What's next -- Do we start to buy straight from the Chinese government in 5 years?

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 10/30/18 11:22pm

What's next -- Do we start to buy straight from the Chinese government in 5 years?

No. 

"Xi Jinping's Gift To The American People: Free Surveillance Cameras In Every Home And Business"

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Charles Rollet

11/29/18 12:31pm

Update: IPVM has received a response from a Huawei spokesperson about its aim of becoming a "Top 3" global video surveillance player:

"Regarding the reports of the Chinese media, the product team responded that they are more willing to deliver the best products and solutions to customers, and do not want to express more opinions on market share."

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Undisclosed #4

In reply to Charles Rollet | 06/28/19 06:00pm

Seems Huawei is on track....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iojQ153cai8

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Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | 05/16/19 02:32pm

Hikvision has already responded to the possible competitive threat of Huawei entering the security market...

sounds like a sword fight on the deck of the Titanic ;)

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