HID Releases Lower-Cost Signo Readers

By Brian Rhodes, Published Mar 06, 2020, 08:46am EST (Info+)

HID Global is releasing a new line of readers called Signo they claim read farther, are mobile-ready, and automatically adjust for better reads on difficult surfaces.

But are they better than the line they replace, the iClass SE? In this report, we examine HID's claims and share their feedback, including:

  • Signo's initial 4 reader models, including a new mullion keypad type reader
  • Comparing pricing for Signo to the existing iClass SE
  • Why HID's explanation of Signo's longer read distances are confusing
  • How the 3 new 'Credential Profiles' impact which cards can be used
  • HID plans for iClass SE?
  • What Signo's 'Surface Detection Read Optimization' means
  • What the plans are for RB25F Fingerprint readers
  • What impact from Signo dropping 'Clock & Data' support

Signo ****** ******

*** **** ***** ***** ****** *** both ******* *** ****** ******* *** touts '********* ******* *********' ** '******** read ***********' **** ******* ** ************* challenging ******** **** ***** ****** ** turnstiles.

** ******,***** ******** **** ******:

  • ******* (**): *** ******* ***** ***** measures ~*.*" * *.*" * *.*", with * ***** **** ******* ** ~70 **.
  • ******* **** ****** (***): *** ********* in *** ****** ** ******, *** 20K ** * **** ******* ***** reader **** * * * * capacitive ******, ******* ** ******* ** ~75 **.
  • ****-***** (**): *** ****-***** **** ******** ~ *.*" * *.*" * *.*" and ***** ** ******* ** ~** mA.
  • ****-***** **** ****** (***): *** ****-***** unit **** * * * * capacitive ****** ***** ~** **.

Signo ** ***** ***** **** ****** **

*** ** *** ******* *********** ** the ***** ****** ** ****** **** than ********** ****** ** ******.

*** ***** ** **** **** ******* for ***** ** ~**% - **% less **** ********** ****** ** ******:

  • *******: *** **** ** $***, *** Signo ** ** $***
  • ****-*****: *** **** ** $***, *** Signo ** ** $***
  • ****-***** **** ******: *** ***** ** $630, *** ***** *** ** $***

Three "********** ********" ********* ********** *************

*** ** ******** *** '**********' ********** for ***** *** ****** ******** ** read **** *** *** ****-********* ********** formats, *** ******* ** ******** ******* into ***** ********* ********** ******** ** read * ******* '**** **** **' formats:

*** ** *** ***** ******** *** 'mobile-enabled, ******* *** *** ** ****** *****************. *******, ************* ***** ******** ******* varies **** ***** ********:

  • ********: ****** **, **, ****** ******, MIFARE ******* ***/***, ****** *******, *** kHz ****/******/******
  • ****: **** **** ****** *** ****** SEOS *******
  • *****: ****** **, **, ****** ******, MIFARE ******* (*** ****), *** *** MIFARE ******* ***/***, ****** ******* *** or *** *** ***-********* *******.

*** ***** ********** *** ****** **.** MHz ***-**** ***********, *** '****' ******* is **** *** **********. ******** '**********' users ***** ** *****'* '********' *******. The '*****' ******* ******** ***-*** **.** MHz ***********.

Signo ********** ********* & ******

******* ******* ******** ** **** ***** includes ******/*** *** **** ******* ** integrated *******, ****** *** ****** *** additional ******* *** ** ****** **:

***** *** ***** ****** ******** ********** support *** **** ********* *** ****, which *** ********** **** ******* ** iCLASS **.

*** *********/******** *** *** ***** *** recommended ************* ** ****** **, ********* the **** ******* ********** *************, **** support *** *** *** ****, **** notice * *********** ***** ********* ****** their ********** ** *** *****.

*** ******* ********* *** ~$** - $75 ** *** ***** ** ** iClass ** ******, *** *** ******** in *** **** ***** ** ***** models.

Claimed ***** ****** **** *****?

*** ** *** **** *********** ****** of ***** ** ****** **** ****** than ******** *******.

*******, ********* ******** ****** ** ** Signo, **** ****** ****** ****** *** same, ********* ~*.* ** * ****** for ****** ****** ** *** ******:

*********, *** '******* *****' *** ****** SE ****** ******* ** ****** ********* ****** *****, ***** ******** * claimed **** ******** ** '* - 5 ******' (~*.* - **.*') ***** a ******* *********** *** **********, *** typical **.** *** *********** **** **** shorter *********.

***** *****'* **** ****** ** *** appear ************* *********, ** ***** *** to *******:

*** **** ********** ************, *** ***** read ***** ** ****** **** ****** SE. *** *** ***** **** ********* this *** ** ****** **** ********* will ********** **** ***********. *******, **** reference ** *** ********** **** ********* a ********** ** *** ** **** chosen ** ******* *** **** *****.

***'* ******** *********** ****** * ******* environment ****** ** *** ********* *** now **** ********** ********** ****** ***** previously *********** '** *** **********':

** ****** **, ** ********* ******* that **** ************ ***** ** ********** conditions. **** ******** **** ********* ******* challenges ******* ***** ************ ****** ******* the *** **********. ****, **** *** Signo, **’** *********** *** ************** ********* improvements *** ******** *** ******** *********** internally *** **** ****** ** ******* conservative ****** **********.

Read ******** ******** ******

**** ***** ** **** ***** ****** in '********' ******* **** ********* *********.

No ***-**-**** *** ****** **

*** ******* ********* ** ********* ***-**-**** plans *** ****** ** ******* ** Signo ******* *********. **** ****** ** product **** ****** '********* *********' ** listed *****'* ******* ******* **************:

***** ** ** ****** ** *** other *** ******* ***** ** * result ** **** ******.

*** ***, ****** ** ******* *** still ** ****** ******** **** **** support **** *** ******. **** ** discontinue ****** *********, ** **** ******** to ** ** *********** **** ************* for *** ********** **** ** ********** our ******** *** ********* **** ** make.

'Surface ********* **** ************'

** ***** *** ** ******* *** automatic ************ ****** ** *** ** antennas ***** ** *** ******** *******. HID *********:

************ **** *********** ***** ******/****** *** reader ****** **** *********** ** *********** credentials (*** **** * ****** *********). HID ***** ******** *** ******* *** Signo ******* ** ****** * ********* surface *** ************* ****** ***** ********* settings ** ******** *** *********** ** these **********.

**** ** ********** ***** *** *********** that *** ** ******** ******* ** mullions, *********, ***** ******** *** *** rings, ** ****** **********.

*** ******* ********** **** ******* ** automatic ****** *** *** ******** ** technical *********** ** ********. *** ****** has '**********' ****** ** ***** *********** based ** ******** **********:

*** ********* ********* ** ******* *** recalibration ** *** ***** ********* ******** happens ** *** ****** ** ********* powered *** *** **** *** ****** sensor ** *********. ***** ** ********** impact ** *** *** ** *** power *********** ** *** ****** ** a ****** ** **** ****** ***********.

Plans ** ******* ***** *********** ** * ***** *****

**********, ***** **** ******* ********* ******, including *** ******** ******** *********** ****** RB25F.

*** ********* *** ******** ****** ***** be ************ ** ***** ***** * new ******* ** ******** ** ********:

[*** *****] ** ** ********** *** RB25F ** **** ** **** **** the ***** ******. *** ******* **** be ********** **** ** ******** ********/******** update.

*** **** ** *** ******* *****'* performance, *** ****** *********** ****** ************.

No ***** & **** *******

***** ******* ** *** ******* ***** & **** *************, ******* *** ***** time *** *** ******** ******* **** do *** ******* *** ********.

**** **** *** *******, ***** & Data ** * ************* ******** (****** uni-directional) **** ** ******** ********** **** between ******* *** ***********. *******, **** Wiegand, ** ** *** ********* *** is ****** ******** ** ********.

******** ** *******, ***** & **** is *** ******** **** ***** *** offers ** *********** **********. *******, ***** legacy *** ** *** ******** ** older *******, ** ** * ****** option ** **** *******, ********* ******** generation ****** ** ******.

** ***** *** *** ******* ** Signo's ******* ***** & **** *******, and **** ********* **** ** ******** circumstances *******, **** **** **-*** *** current *** ** ** *** ** is *******:

** *** ******* ******, *** ***** supports ******* *** ****. ***** & Data ** *** ********* ** *** Signo ** **** ****. *** ********** and ******** ******* **** ****** ******** has ******* ****** ****** ** **** but ** **** ******** ** ******* customer ******** *** ******** *** ****** to *** **** ********** *** * firmware ******.

Comments (35)

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Scott Fischer

Lorica Consulting LLC
IPVMU Certified | 03/06/20 04:44pm

The introductory email I received from HID also stated "The readers are also designed to be connected and managed remotely without physically touching each device." Any idea how long it might take before we see companies include support for this feature in their access control systems?

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Scott Fischer | 03/06/20 04:54pm

"The readers are also designed to be connected and managed remotely without physically touching each device." Any idea how long it might take before we see companies include support for this feature in their access control systems?"

We asked HID to expand on that, and the remote/on-the-wall central management will be routed to the reader via OSDP. HID's comment:

In the future, we expect that readers connected via OSDP will also be remotely managed.

... the reader was designed to accommodate a connected future. Every reader is capable of bi-directional communication via OSDP; our expectation is that this will be the primary interface through which lifecycle management of the reader will be most prevalent.

These features are still being developed, and are included in/ depend on respective platform OSDP implementation.

So for now, reader configuration and management still happens via HID's Reader Manager smartphone app and visiting each reader.

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Undisclosed

In reply to Brian Rhodes | 03/06/20 08:32pm

If one interprets this in OSDP feature terms, it means they are saying that in the future they will support file transfer over OSDP for config and/or firmware update. Some PACS solutions now support OSDP file transfer; Mercury supports it directly via the web UI to their (newer at least) panels. No more config cards perhaps?

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Undisclosed End User #2

In reply to Undisclosed | 03/09/20 01:40pm

I've heard from HID that config cards will completely go away at some point in favor of reader manager and central management through the ACS.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed End User #2 | 03/09/20 02:13pm

This is generally correct, reader manager app already replaces the cards on readers that support BLE, and the central management piece is yet to be built out but is the eventual plan.

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Undisclosed

In reply to Undisclosed End User #2 | 03/10/20 09:18pm

reader manager (and anything else that requires a human be present at the reader) are not being perceived as "centralized management". BLE is cool and all but there still needs to be a human at the reader so it fails the "have you finally invented windows update" test.

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Ralph Azzi

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Scott Fischer | 03/06/20 07:22pm

I expect that it is possible through their HID Origo portal Managed services, connected in the background with the Access Control system, similar to what is happening now with Mobile credentials.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Ralph Azzi | 03/06/20 07:31pm

It will be, but it is mostly 'roadmap' talk. HID is overselling the 'on-the-wall central management' aspect because it is future function.

HID plans to continue development on this and use OSDP via connected access systems to communicate with readers.

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Shannon Davis

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Brian Rhodes | 03/09/20 02:24pm

I just hope HID has figured out OSDP v2 & Mercury boards with this new product and this is why they haven't come up with a solid solution for their existing readers.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Shannon Davis | 03/09/20 02:29pm

When we tested (the soon to be Signo) RB25F Fingerprint reader, OSDPv2 was not supported. HID says the firmware update to change this is upcoming...

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Undisclosed End User #1

03/06/20 09:52pm

Maybe its just me on a Friday afternoon, but....

Do all the 3 profile readers support SEOS?
Does the SEOS profile reader support iClass SE?

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed End User #1 | 03/06/20 10:08pm

This chart may help:

Do all the 3 profile readers support SEOS?

Yes

Does the SEOS profile reader support iClass SE?

iClass SE is a reader series (as used in this post). The 'Standard' and 'Smart' profiles support older legacy iClass formats including SE, but 'Seos' profile does not.

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Ralph Azzi

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Brian Rhodes | 03/06/20 10:17pm

In Other words, use the standard profile if you are doing a conversion, with both 125Khz and iClass smart cards in use.

Use Seos Profile for new sites with new credentials.

Use the smart profile for migration with existing sites and only iClass smart card credentials. ( no 125KHZ )

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Brian Rhodes | 03/06/20 10:26pm

The chart is exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Brian Rhodes | 06/27/20 11:44pm

Thanks Brian - is it correct that Signo is not supporting generic DESFire/EV2 formats and keys e.g. it only supports HIDs proprietary SIO format on the DESFire card ?

With Multiclass you used to be able to order them with firmware with generic DESFire/EV1 support (non SIO), looks like they dropped that ?

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Ty Mullen

COR Security, Inc.
03/10/20 01:48pm

When using the HID Configurator it ask you to choose between wiegand and OSDP. However I thought they were both native in the Signo.

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Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Ty Mullen | 03/10/20 02:02pm

I was actually talking to my HID rep yesterday and brought that up. I was told it is "still a work in progress" and they all 100% are wiegand and OSDP with no option to remove either.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Ty Mullen | 03/10/20 03:19pm

HID tells us both are supported, with a radio button in Reader Manager to select between the two, similar to iClass SE. So selecting either option when ordering is the default configuration it comes to you.

I asked:

Q: For Signo, Wiegand is available but can be turned on/off in Origo/Reader Manager, corrrect?

A: Correct. Wiegand and OSDP are both included and can be configured on/off via the HID Reader Manager mobile application. In the future, we expect that readers connected via OSDP will also be remotely managed.

However, given the order page weirdness and reports to the contrary, i.e. Int #3's question, I'll ask HID to confirm.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Ty Mullen | 03/10/20 04:24pm

HID response, claim either option can be selected via app control:

All Signo readers support both OSDP v2 and Wiegand. As shown in the HID Reader Manager screen shot, a reader technician can toggle between the two. When he/she enables OSDP, it automatically disables Wiegand and visa versa.

The HID Configurator does not make the customer choose between support for Wiegand or OSDP.

Rather, it simply captures preference on the initial configuration state with which the specific reader part number will ship from HID distribution center. As shown in the screenshot, this can be easily changed in the field.

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Undisclosed

03/10/20 09:21pm

Are these readers shipping now?

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed | 03/10/20 09:27pm

They are not in stock that I've seen, but distributors are taking orders, i.e. Norbain, et. al.

My local ADI branch could not give me an 'in-stock' date.

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Undisclosed End User #1

05/01/20 02:22pm

Has anyone used the terminal strip version of the readers instead of the pigtail?

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Ty Mullen

COR Security, Inc.
In reply to Undisclosed End User #1 | 05/01/20 04:22pm

I have used the terminal strip for their standard line of readers but NOT the new Signo. One thing to note is that they want installers to use a gasket (not included) for exterior installations.

I like and prefer the terminal if the readers are going to be installed on a single gang box/ring. If not then the pigtail is better.

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Dave Gideon

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Ty Mullen | 08/12/20 01:43am

There is no mention in the installation document from HID of needing a gasket for the Signo readers

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Jerome Ellis

05/06/20 02:23pm

Is HID matching these new SIGNO readers to a new controller? based on available controllers..If we wanted to assemble an all HID solution what would be the recommended single door controller to use with the new signo readers..assuming we are going with the SEOS profile and want OSPD to be used?

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Jerome Ellis | 05/06/20 02:31pm

Is HID matching these new SIGNO readers to a new controller? based on available controllers..

Signo is controller agnostic in that it connects to controllers via Wiegand or OSDP.

If we wanted to assemble an all HID solution what would be the recommended single door controller to use with the new signo readers..assuming we are going with the SEOS profile and want OSPD to be used?

The practical constraint would be selecting a controller the management system is compatible with. In that sense, Open Access Controller Guide (Axis, HID, Isonas, Mercury) might be helpful, and keeping it "all HID" would limit the selection to Mercury Security (an HID brand) or HID controllers.

The Edge EVO or LP 1501 are supported by many for single door use, but there may be other options than just those two depending on platform support.

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Undisclosed Integrator #5

08/11/20 01:10pm

And here I am looking for a reader with a keypad and a small display to prompt the user. With OSDP, iClass, and SEOS support. But it seems that I cannot get the option of the pesky display.

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Undisclosed #6

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 08/12/20 03:08am

HID discontinued the RWKL550 which is probably what you want. You probably won't find any 3rd party plain reader that supports iClass/Seos since they only tend to license that tech out to multi-function devices like biometric readers. So if you didn't mind paying for a fingerprint sensor...

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David Coughlin

08/11/20 04:52pm

Is there any news on PIV readers under the Signo brand?

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to David Coughlin | 08/11/20 05:01pm

Nothing for now and iClass SE still is the PIV product, but HID tells us that the Signo line/development roadmap is being developed and this could change.

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Undisclosed #7

08/12/20 04:44am

Perform a shoot against Lenel's Blue Diamond. HID is Mike Tyson.

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #7 | 08/12/20 12:07pm

HID is Mike Tyson.

1985 Mike Tyson? 2005 Mike Tyson? 2020 Mike Tyson?

In all seriousness, are you criticizing Lenel's Blue Diamond or?

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Shannon Davis

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed #7 | 08/12/20 01:55pm

HID used to be Mike Tyson of the 80's. Now HID is Mike Tyson of 2020, dazed and confused. Don't get me wrong HID is a solid product but there complete failure on OSDP V.2 is astounding.

Blue Diamond is really good these days. Especially there pathways feature.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Shannon Davis | 08/12/20 05:05pm

but there complete failure on OSDP V.2 is astounding.

Failure to what degree? Not defending HID, but curious to what element they have failed.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed #7 | 08/12/20 05:00pm

Lenel Blue Diamond is 3MillID.

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