HID Releases Lower-Cost Signo Readers

By Brian Rhodes, Published Mar 06, 2020, 08:46am EST (Info+)

HID Global is releasing a new line of readers called Signo they claim read farther, are mobile-ready, and automatically adjust for better reads on difficult surfaces.

But are they better than the line they replace, the iClass SE? In this report, we examine HID's claims and share their feedback, including:

  • Signo's initial 4 reader models, including a new mullion keypad type reader
  • Comparing pricing for Signo to the existing iClass SE
  • Why HID's explanation of Signo's longer read distances are confusing
  • How the 3 new 'Credential Profiles' impact which cards can be used
  • HID plans for iClass SE?
  • What Signo's 'Surface Detection Read Optimization' means
  • What the plans are for RB25F Fingerprint readers
  • What impact from Signo dropping 'Clock & Data' support

Signo ****** ******

*** **** ***** ***** ****** *** both ******* *** ****** ******* *** touts '********* ******* *********' ** '******** read ***********' **** ******* ** ************* challenging ******** **** ***** ****** ** turnstiles.

** ******,***** ******** **** ******:

  • ******* (**): *** ******* ***** ***** measures ~*.*" * *.*" * *.*", with * ***** **** ******* ** ~70 **.
  • ******* **** ****** (***): *** ********* in *** ****** ** ******, *** 20K ** * **** ******* ***** reader **** * * * * capacitive ******, ******* ** ******* ** ~75 **.
  • ****-***** (**): *** ****-***** **** ******** ~ *.*" * *.*" * *.*" and ***** ** ******* ** ~** mA.
  • ****-***** **** ****** (***): *** ****-***** unit **** * * * * capacitive ****** ***** ~** **.

Signo ** ***** ***** **** ****** **

*** ** *** ******* *********** ** the ***** ****** ** ****** **** than ********** ****** ** ******.

*** ***** ** **** **** ******* for ***** ** ~**% - **% less **** ********** ****** ** ******:

  • *******: *** **** ** $***, *** Signo ** ** $***
  • ****-*****: *** **** ** $***, *** Signo ** ** $***
  • ****-***** **** ******: *** ***** ** $630, *** ***** *** ** $***

Three "********** ********" ********* ********** *************

*** ** ******** *** '**********' ********** for ***** *** ****** ******** ** read **** *** *** ****-********* ********** formats, *** ******* ** ******** ******* into ***** ********* ********** ******** ** read * ******* '**** **** **' formats:

*** ** *** ***** ******** *** 'mobile-enabled, ******* *** *** ** ****** *****************. *******, ************* ***** ******** ******* varies **** ***** ********:

  • ********: ****** **, **, ****** ******, MIFARE ******* ***/***, ****** *******, *** kHz ****/******/******
  • ****: **** **** ****** *** ****** SEOS *******
  • *****: ****** **, **, ****** ******, MIFARE ******* (*** ****), *** *** MIFARE ******* ***/***, ****** ******* *** or *** *** ***-********* *******.

*** ***** ********** *** ****** **.** MHz ***-**** ***********, *** '****' ******* is **** *** **********. ******** '**********' users ***** ** *****'* '********' *******. The '*****' ******* ******** ***-*** **.** MHz ***********.

Signo ********** ********* & ******

******* ******* ******** ** **** ***** includes ******/*** *** **** ******* ** integrated *******, ****** *** ****** *** additional ******* *** ** ****** **:

***** *** ***** ****** ******** ********** support *** **** ********* *** ****, which *** ********** **** ******* ** iCLASS **.

*** *********/******** *** *** ***** *** recommended ************* ** ****** **, ********* the **** ******* ********** *************, **** support *** *** *** ****, **** notice * *********** ***** ********* ****** their ********** ** *** *****.

*** ******* ********* *** ~$** - $75 ** *** ***** ** ** iClass ** ******, *** *** ******** in *** **** ***** ** ***** models.

Claimed ***** ****** **** *****?

*** ** *** **** *********** ****** of ***** ** ****** **** ****** than ******** *******.

*******, ********* ******** ****** ** ** Signo, **** ****** ****** ****** *** same, ********* ~*.* ** * ****** for ****** ****** ** *** ******:

*********, *** '******* *****' *** ****** SE ****** ******* ** ****** ********* ****** *****, ***** ******** * claimed **** ******** ** '* - 5 ******' (~*.* - **.*') ***** a ******* *********** *** **********, *** typical **.** *** *********** **** **** shorter *********.

***** *****'* **** ****** ** *** appear ************* *********, ** ***** *** to *******:

*** **** ********** ************, *** ***** read ***** ** ****** **** ****** SE. *** *** ***** **** ********* this *** ** ****** **** ********* will ********** **** ***********. *******, **** reference ** *** ********** **** ********* a ********** ** *** ** **** chosen ** ******* *** **** *****.

***'* ******** *********** ****** * ******* environment ****** ** *** ********* *** now **** ********** ********** ****** ***** previously *********** '** *** **********':

** ****** **, ** ********* ******* that **** ************ ***** ** ********** conditions. **** ******** **** ********* ******* challenges ******* ***** ************ ****** ******* the *** **********. ****, **** *** Signo, **’** *********** *** ************** ********* improvements *** ******** *** ******** *********** internally *** **** ****** ** ******* conservative ****** **********.

Read ******** ******** ******

**** ***** ** **** ***** ****** in '********' ******* **** ********* *********.

No ***-**-**** *** ****** **

*** ******* ********* ** ********* ***-**-**** plans *** ****** ** ******* ** Signo ******* *********. **** ****** ** product **** ****** '********* *********' ** listed *****'* ******* ******* **************:

***** ** ** ****** ** *** other *** ******* ***** ** * result ** **** ******.

*** ***, ****** ** ******* *** still ** ****** ******** **** **** support **** *** ******. **** ** discontinue ****** *********, ** **** ******** to ** ** *********** **** ************* for *** ********** **** ** ********** our ******** *** ********* **** ** make.

'Surface ********* **** ************'

** ***** *** ** ******* *** automatic ************ ****** ** *** ** antennas ***** ** *** ******** *******. HID *********:

************ **** *********** ***** ******/****** *** reader ****** **** *********** ** *********** credentials (*** **** * ****** *********). HID ***** ******** *** ******* *** Signo ******* ** ****** * ********* surface *** ************* ****** ***** ********* settings ** ******** *** *********** ** these **********.

**** ** ********** ***** *** *********** that *** ** ******** ******* ** mullions, *********, ***** ******** *** *** rings, ** ****** **********.

*** ******* ********** **** ******* ** automatic ****** *** *** ******** ** technical *********** ** ********. *** ****** has '**********' ****** ** ***** *********** based ** ******** **********:

*** ********* ********* ** ******* *** recalibration ** *** ***** ********* ******** happens ** *** ****** ** ********* powered *** *** **** *** ****** sensor ** *********. ***** ** ********** impact ** *** *** ** *** power *********** ** *** ****** ** a ****** ** **** ****** ***********.

Plans ** ******* ***** *********** ** * ***** *****

**********, ***** **** ******* ********* ******, including *** ******** ******** *********** ****** RB25F.

*** ********* *** ******** ****** ***** be ************ ** ***** ***** * new ******* ** ******** ** ********:

[*** *****] ** ** ********** *** RB25F ** **** ** **** **** the ***** ******. *** ******* **** be ********** **** ** ******** ********/******** update.

*** **** ** *** ******* *****'* performance, *** ****** *********** ****** ************.

No ***** & **** *******

***** ******* ** *** ******* ***** & **** *************, ******* *** ***** time *** *** ******** ******* **** do *** ******* *** ********.

**** **** *** *******, ***** & Data ** * ************* ******** (****** uni-directional) **** ** ******** ********** **** between ******* *** ***********. *******, **** Wiegand, ** ** *** ********* *** is ****** ******** ** ********.

******** ** *******, ***** & **** is *** ******** **** ***** *** offers ** *********** **********. *******, ***** legacy *** ** *** ******** ** older *******, ** ** * ****** option ** **** *******, ********* ******** generation ****** ** ******.

** ***** *** *** ******* ** Signo's ******* ***** & **** *******, and **** ********* **** ** ******** circumstances *******, **** **** **-*** *** current *** ** ** *** ** is *******:

** *** ******* ******, *** ***** supports ******* *** ****. ***** & Data ** *** ********* ** *** Signo ** **** ****. *** ********** and ******** ******* **** ****** ******** has ******* ****** ****** ** **** but ** **** ******** ** ******* customer ******** *** ******** *** ****** to *** **** ********** *** * firmware ******.

Comments (35)

The introductory email I received from HID also stated "The readers are also designed to be connected and managed remotely without physically touching each device." Any idea how long it might take before we see companies include support for this feature in their access control systems?

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"The readers are also designed to be connected and managed remotely without physically touching each device." Any idea how long it might take before we see companies include support for this feature in their access control systems?"

We asked HID to expand on that, and the remote/on-the-wall central management will be routed to the reader via OSDP. HID's comment:

In the future, we expect that readers connected via OSDP will also be remotely managed.

... the reader was designed to accommodate a connected future. Every reader is capable of bi-directional communication via OSDP; our expectation is that this will be the primary interface through which lifecycle management of the reader will be most prevalent.

These features are still being developed, and are included in/ depend on respective platform OSDP implementation.

So for now, reader configuration and management still happens via HID's Reader Manager smartphone app and visiting each reader.

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If one interprets this in OSDP feature terms, it means they are saying that in the future they will support file transfer over OSDP for config and/or firmware update. Some PACS solutions now support OSDP file transfer; Mercury supports it directly via the web UI to their (newer at least) panels. No more config cards perhaps?

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I've heard from HID that config cards will completely go away at some point in favor of reader manager and central management through the ACS.

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This is generally correct, reader manager app already replaces the cards on readers that support BLE, and the central management piece is yet to be built out but is the eventual plan.

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reader manager (and anything else that requires a human be present at the reader) are not being perceived as "centralized management". BLE is cool and all but there still needs to be a human at the reader so it fails the "have you finally invented windows update" test.

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I expect that it is possible through their HID Origo portal Managed services, connected in the background with the Access Control system, similar to what is happening now with Mobile credentials.

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It will be, but it is mostly 'roadmap' talk. HID is overselling the 'on-the-wall central management' aspect because it is future function.

HID plans to continue development on this and use OSDP via connected access systems to communicate with readers.

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I just hope HID has figured out OSDP v2 & Mercury boards with this new product and this is why they haven't come up with a solid solution for their existing readers.

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When we tested (the soon to be Signo) RB25F Fingerprint reader, OSDPv2 was not supported. HID says the firmware update to change this is upcoming...

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Maybe its just me on a Friday afternoon, but....

Do all the 3 profile readers support SEOS?
Does the SEOS profile reader support iClass SE?

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This chart may help:

Do all the 3 profile readers support SEOS?

Yes

Does the SEOS profile reader support iClass SE?

iClass SE is a reader series (as used in this post). The 'Standard' and 'Smart' profiles support older legacy iClass formats including SE, but 'Seos' profile does not.

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In Other words, use the standard profile if you are doing a conversion, with both 125Khz and iClass smart cards in use.

Use Seos Profile for new sites with new credentials.

Use the smart profile for migration with existing sites and only iClass smart card credentials. ( no 125KHZ )

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The chart is exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

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Thanks Brian - is it correct that Signo is not supporting generic DESFire/EV2 formats and keys e.g. it only supports HIDs proprietary SIO format on the DESFire card ?

With Multiclass you used to be able to order them with firmware with generic DESFire/EV1 support (non SIO), looks like they dropped that ?

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When using the HID Configurator it ask you to choose between wiegand and OSDP. However I thought they were both native in the Signo.

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I was actually talking to my HID rep yesterday and brought that up. I was told it is "still a work in progress" and they all 100% are wiegand and OSDP with no option to remove either.

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HID tells us both are supported, with a radio button in Reader Manager to select between the two, similar to iClass SE. So selecting either option when ordering is the default configuration it comes to you.

I asked:

Q: For Signo, Wiegand is available but can be turned on/off in Origo/Reader Manager, corrrect?

A: Correct. Wiegand and OSDP are both included and can be configured on/off via the HID Reader Manager mobile application. In the future, we expect that readers connected via OSDP will also be remotely managed.

However, given the order page weirdness and reports to the contrary, i.e. Int #3's question, I'll ask HID to confirm.

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HID response, claim either option can be selected via app control:

All Signo readers support both OSDP v2 and Wiegand. As shown in the HID Reader Manager screen shot, a reader technician can toggle between the two. When he/she enables OSDP, it automatically disables Wiegand and visa versa.

The HID Configurator does not make the customer choose between support for Wiegand or OSDP.

Rather, it simply captures preference on the initial configuration state with which the specific reader part number will ship from HID distribution center. As shown in the screenshot, this can be easily changed in the field.

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Are these readers shipping now?

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They are not in stock that I've seen, but distributors are taking orders, i.e. Norbain, et. al.

My local ADI branch could not give me an 'in-stock' date.

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Has anyone used the terminal strip version of the readers instead of the pigtail?

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I have used the terminal strip for their standard line of readers but NOT the new Signo. One thing to note is that they want installers to use a gasket (not included) for exterior installations.

I like and prefer the terminal if the readers are going to be installed on a single gang box/ring. If not then the pigtail is better.

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There is no mention in the installation document from HID of needing a gasket for the Signo readers

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Is HID matching these new SIGNO readers to a new controller? based on available controllers..If we wanted to assemble an all HID solution what would be the recommended single door controller to use with the new signo readers..assuming we are going with the SEOS profile and want OSPD to be used?

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Is HID matching these new SIGNO readers to a new controller? based on available controllers..

Signo is controller agnostic in that it connects to controllers via Wiegand or OSDP.

If we wanted to assemble an all HID solution what would be the recommended single door controller to use with the new signo readers..assuming we are going with the SEOS profile and want OSPD to be used?

The practical constraint would be selecting a controller the management system is compatible with. In that sense, Open Access Controller Guide (Axis, HID, Isonas, Mercury) might be helpful, and keeping it "all HID" would limit the selection to Mercury Security (an HID brand) or HID controllers.

The Edge EVO or LP 1501 are supported by many for single door use, but there may be other options than just those two depending on platform support.

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And here I am looking for a reader with a keypad and a small display to prompt the user. With OSDP, iClass, and SEOS support. But it seems that I cannot get the option of the pesky display.

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HID discontinued the RWKL550 which is probably what you want. You probably won't find any 3rd party plain reader that supports iClass/Seos since they only tend to license that tech out to multi-function devices like biometric readers. So if you didn't mind paying for a fingerprint sensor...

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Is there any news on PIV readers under the Signo brand?

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Nothing for now and iClass SE still is the PIV product, but HID tells us that the Signo line/development roadmap is being developed and this could change.

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Perform a shoot against Lenel's Blue Diamond. HID is Mike Tyson.

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HID is Mike Tyson.

1985 Mike Tyson? 2005 Mike Tyson? 2020 Mike Tyson?

In all seriousness, are you criticizing Lenel's Blue Diamond or?

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HID used to be Mike Tyson of the 80's. Now HID is Mike Tyson of 2020, dazed and confused. Don't get me wrong HID is a solid product but there complete failure on OSDP V.2 is astounding.

Blue Diamond is really good these days. Especially there pathways feature.

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but there complete failure on OSDP V.2 is astounding.

Failure to what degree? Not defending HID, but curious to what element they have failed.

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Lenel Blue Diamond is 3MillID.

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