Dahua Racist Uyghur Tracking Revealed

It's almost like installing gas chambers for the Nazi Germany concentration camps. I have heard they even practice forceful sterilization of Uyghur women there in China. I wouldn't buy equipment by such a manufacturer.

When the NDAA bans aren’t enough, or the worst happens and Biden bends us back over for China, at least there’s horrific crimes against humanity to keep Hikvision and Dahua at bay.

Update: SCMP has now covered this: Chinese surveillance giant expanding in the US attracts scrutiny over possible targeting of Uygurs | South China Morning Post

They include a response from Dahua:

“Dahua Technology does not sell products that feature [an] ethnicity-focused recognition function,” the company responded by email.

While making that denial, the SCMP simultaneously said that Dahua did not provide any other information:

With the new controversy, Dahua responded quickly by replacing the SDK files. The company, however, did not respond to additional inquiries about its code.

The Dahua SDK certainly was tracking Uyghurs specifically (and no other ethnicity/nationality) in that nation_type field. They still have offered no explanation for that so it is not clear if Dahua is telling the truth, lying, or omitting material information on why their SDK was tracking Uyghurs.

Warning: I recently switched from de-caffeinated beverages, and I guess it shows.

As a coder it's pretty weird to see a base class called "MyStructure" - it's the kind of name you might use if you're just doing random stuff for fun. It suggests to me that not a lot of thought went into the naming of things in this SDK.

That said, I want to point out that what we're looking at are NOT functions, they're just a bunch of definition of identifiers that can be used in functions, and the twitter posts are not actually showing the functions that supposedly use/return these values.

It's not uncommon to add these sorts of things to SDK/APIs even before the capability is there (Apple fanboys enthusiasts often dig through the iOS SDKs to look for hints on future devices and capabilities). So, while I agree that this whole thing is ethically corrupt, I think it worth mentioning that we're looking at intent, and perverse as it is, it is not evidence of actual capability.

But does it really matter if Dahua or HikVision actually has this capability?

There's no question that building a robust classifier that can detect Uyghurs with good accuracy is - sick as it is - good marketing. There are plenty of people who are salivating at the idea of such a thing. Obviously not to detect Uyghurs, but maybe detect other kinds of people that you don't like (but obviously justified). Even if you have no intent to track any ethnic minority, you might walk away with the conclusion that these companies have magical and superior technology compared to their peers.

Dahua and the PRC clearly has an interest in having people believe they have this capability. Lots of people think they do, and often they'll point to a propaganda piece on YouTube that shows how China can detect if someone is slightly constipated from a 32x40px ROI. Shortly thereafter, YouTube with all their Google intelligence and accurate knowledge of my unsavory internet activity will suggest that I watch a 5 y/o review of some laptop I bought a long time ago.

What scares me is that a lot of people think that these systems are super accurate. Yes, it's surprising and fun when my Anki robot says "Hi Morten". It's fun that we can have algorithms that can recognize a bike, a car and a bag, but when you run these things, you'll see that quite often they fail and make mistakes a human never would. People tend to develop a blindness to the errors, and instead they make excuses "the sun was blinding the camera", "it was foggy", and instead latch on to the magical moments when it did work.

When the general perception is that tech is neutral, objective and accurate (it is neither), people may start to think that if the computer says you did it, then you did it. What possible motive could a computer have to lie? Despots usually love this sort of thing.

Sadly, I think banning Dahua/HikVision is to get PRC to stop the incarceration of Uyghurs, is a fools errand. If the campaign is successful, and Dahua and HikVision goes bankrupt, then four new companies will pop up like the heads of Medusa. If we ban all trade with China, then chances are the iron grip will just tighten as everyday citizens are hurt by the boycott - ultimately leading to more suffering.

As a professed misanthrope with no faith in humanity, its really hard for me to see a solution to this. Let's speak up when we see injustice, but you kinda get numb after a while. The media seems to be a constant barrage of things I should be upset about, so apathy has set in a looooong time ago. And then people don't buy Dahua, but instead order a ton of cheap Chinese junk from Bezos' mail-order company.

I'd like to see us waking up to the new reality of commerce. You can get all the parts needed to build a capable IP camera in China by just walking around Shenzhen, as a private person. This ability to create products with little friction is simply amazing. Contrast to the west where you have to go through NDAs, negotiations, people who won't talk to you because you're not ordering 20.000 units etc. That - combined with the "money for nothing" mentality that is being praised in the west will be our undoing.

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: Sadly, I Think Banning Dahua/Hikvision Is To Get PRC To Stop The Incarceration Of Uyghurs, Is A Fools Errand.

Update, US Senator criticizes Dahua on this:

There has been new evidence released that Dahua Technology is behind Beijing’s dystopian surveillance network in Xinjiang, including software that has a facial recognition function for Uyghur facial features. This is absolutely reprehensible.

— Sen. Marsha Blackburn (@MarshaBlackburn) November 10, 2020

Update, Daily Beast covers this: Amazon Partner in China is Making Facial Recognition Tech to Track Uyghurs

IPVM has been on this for a long time now, why the recent coverage? I’ve been begging for it and I’m thankful for it but represents a fairly staunch about face....

about face...

My co-worker just brought up this IPVM article, and yesterdays article on Uyghur "warnings" to China police to me this morning. Beyond feeling completely disgusted, I feel tremendous despair and sadness for those poor people who are being targeted for their race and religious beliefs.

This is disgusting, and morally reprehensible. Of course Hik and Dahua will keep up the lies, lies and more lies so they can carry out their morally corrupt motives. The more research I just did after hearing about this, the more outraged I became about all the inhumanity and depravity associated with it. Their use of this targeted technology is sick and the world is worse for it.

Enough is enough is enough. They are now clearly linked to exclusively using these brands, this surveillance technology for spying, ethnic cleansing initiatives and other nefarious social monitoring and manipulation motives. I'm not quite sure how many years working on and using this in China...it's so disgusting. We stopped selling HIK years ago and never bought Dahua. We will never, ever, buy those cameras, period.

I agree with a lot of what Morten Tor Nielsen says in his post and especially below, but I guess I am not numb. Sometimes I feel like a misanthrope too..so I can relate. It is hard with a constant barrage of negativity and injustice. I guess here we do what we can to educate each and every one of our customers, and potential customers every day on manufacturer ethics, product updates and potential pitfalls. I think doing that has helped; as the word has spread in our state over the past few years about viruses, security flaws, and now morally reprehensible surveillance activity linked to human rights abuse and ethnic cleansing.

"As a professed misanthrope with no faith in humanity, its really hard for me to see a solution to this. Let's speak up when we see injustice, but you kinda get numb after a while. The media seems to be a constant barrage of things I should be upset about, so apathy has set in a looooong time ago. And then people don't buy Dahua, but instead order a ton of cheap Chinese junk from Bezos' mail-order company."

Thank you to IPVM for their reporting on these issues. We routinely forward articles, and use them as a source of valuable information not only for product reviews, but for news like this that should be absolutely be shared with the installer community and beyond.

My thoughts and prayers go out to these people who are suffering, and I can only hope that there is enough outrage and reporting in the world on these morally bankrupt activities that might eventually make a difference somehow, sooner than later.