Dahua Declares Defeat, 'Embraces' Enemies

By John Honovich, Published Apr 04, 2016, 07:51am EDT

Lost.

The world's second largest video surveillance manufacturer has done a complete turnaround, from threatening to sue their enemies for stealing their 'technology' to welcoming them in yet another embarrassing move.

In this note, we examine Dahua's competitive shift and what this means to them, HD analog competitors like Hikvision and Western IP camera manufacturers.

Threats **** *****

** *** ******* **** one ** *****'* ***** solemn ************ **** **** 2 ***** ***, **** Dahua ******** ********* ***** action [**** ** ****** available] ******* ***** **** steal *****.

*** **** * *** months *****, **** ********* *** ****** ********* ***** * ** analog ****** - ******** (AHD) *** ********* (***), telling **** **** *** to **** ******** ***** offerings ***********, ***** *****:

*** **** ***** ***** legal *******, **** ****** a ***** ******* ******** Hikvision ** ****** ** them [**** ** ****** available], ****** **** **** "*********** ******* *** ********* about **** *********** ********."

******** ** ***, ***** accomplished *******.

Embraces *******

***, *****'* *** ********* message *** *** **** 2016 ********:

"**** ***** *** *** state-of-the-art ***** ********* – they ******* *** **** CVI, ****** *** **, but **** *** *** TVI."

** *** *** ***** companies ***** **** ***, spied ** ***, *** now *** *** ********* them?

Incompetence ** ** *** ****

***** ** *** *** at ******** ****** ** (e.g.,***** ****** ****** ******* Strategy). **** ******** **** even *** **** ****** things.

*** *******, *****'* ********** embracing ***** ******* ***** every ***** ********:

** ********, ** **** took **** * *** days ** *** **, which *** *****'* *** standards, ** ******.

******, ***** ******* *** to ** **** ****, asking *** ** *** not ***** **** ****.** **** **** ** would ********* ***** **** but ** ************* *********** ** *.*, *.*., **********, ********, MSRP *******. **** *********:

"** ***’* **** *********, brochure *** ******* ***."

**** ** ******* *** them *** *** *** their ***********. **** ****, Dahua ******* ** **** us ***** ** ***** buy ***** ******** ** the **, ********* **** this *** '************ ***********'.

*****Impact ***

********* *** *** *** is *** * **** sign *** *****. **** bet **** **** **** could **** ***** ****** with ***** *** ** analog ******** *** ** is ******* *** ******* out. **** ** ** is ****** *****'* ************. Also ******* **** ** rival ********* **** ***** party ********* ********* (******** - ***,********* - ***), *** **** **** conflict ** ******** ** manufacturers **** ****** *** chips **** *****.

IP ****** ****** ********

****** *** ** *** traditional ** ****** ************* have ******* ** ****** for ***(*.*.,**** ** ** ****** About ** ******). *** ***** ************ formats (***** ***, *** and ***) ** *** reason *** **** *** one *********** ********** *** all ** ******.

***, **** *** ******** and ********* ******* ** analog ****** **********, **** means ** ****** ** more ** * ****** to ** *******. ****, Avigilon, ***., *** ****** multiple **** **** ****** against ** ************ ************* offering.

HD ****** ****** ******

********, ** ****** ******** from (*) ***** ******** its ******* ******* ***** HD ****** ********* *** (2) **** ***** ** now ********* *** ** analog *******.

******, *** *** *** have **** **** **** cordial *** *********** ********** the ****** ** ** analog. **** **** *** been * ******* ** HD ****** ****************. **** Dahua.

** ** ****** ****** where ********* ** *** need ** **** **** cameras **** **** **** what ********* ** * significant **** *******. ***** we ***** ** **** take * *** ***** for *** ******* *** products ** *** ** the **** ****, ***** declaring ****** ** *** critical **** ** *** right *********.

Comments (19)

Eddie Perry

04/04/16 12:27pm

what do you expect Dahua when Hikivison gets a 3 billion dollar endorsement from the bosses and you get nothing.

you were voted off the island, if you had anything and even if hikivison was stealing your tech it wouldn't matter when the government leaders decide who should win or lose.

best get used to the idea of becoming new hikivison employees of some fashion.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Eddie Perry | 04/04/16 12:48pm

Eddie, lol. I do think Dahua's problems are much more than just money and politics.

For example, Nextchip is ~1/30 of Dahua's size and has done well. Techpoint is basically a startup and has done well.

We track and interact with easily 100 different manufacturers and Dahua is, by far, the worst organized. Only classic BRS Labs insanity could challenge them.

Dahua is still a billion dollar plus company so they have big backing on their own, they just are executing terribly 'overseas'.

Eddie Perry

In reply to John Honovich | 04/04/16 01:27pm

my comment was regarding the legal issues they had with Hikivison, and the chip manufactures.

all that matters to the Chinese government is that everyone's hands are busy they are not gonna allow Dahua to lock down production for "petty patent" issues production must stay high, if patents slow that down or mess with other "competitors" that have the government blessings it quite simply is not allowed.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Eddie Perry | 04/04/16 01:32pm

Eddie, I agree about that.

That said, shouldn't that have been obvious to Dahua from the beginning? :)

Which leads me back to their general incompetence...

Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Eddie Perry | 04/04/16 02:13pm

...not gonna allow Dahua to lock down production for "petty patent" issues production must stay high

True, but unfair nonetheless. Clearly Dahua was the first to steal this technology, ahead of Techpoint's cloning of CVI and Nextchip's even later cloning of TVI.

Avatar

Ari Erenthal

Chesapeake & Midlantic
In reply to Eddie Perry | 04/04/16 01:21pm

It doesn't cost 3 billion dollars to put together a datasheet and brochure.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Ari Erenthal | 04/04/16 11:58pm

Money doesn't buy you class or ability.

Any product announcement from China, might just as well mean, we had an Idea does anyone like to buy it. So we can go make it for you.

Pre-Alpha testing at it's most classic.

Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 04/05/16 12:12am

Any product announcement from China, might just as well mean, we had an Idea does anyone like to buy it. So we can go make it for you.

In the U.S. it works differently:

"we had an idea, does anyone want to buy it?"

"ok good, buy it and will go make it for you."

Related:Startup: The Pepper-Spraying Camera

Crowdsourced Funding for Security Startups

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC
In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 04/05/16 12:48pm

US version:

Company: We have an idea for a new product!

Buyers: Yes that is what we want!

Company: Just go to our Kickigogo page and pre-buy one!

Buyers: OK we can wait six months for you to finish designs and build me one..

Company: (two years later) We will start producing our first batch as soon as we receive another $5M to burn through...

Buyer: I wish we would have bought the cheaper Chinese knockoff...

Avatar

Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security
04/04/16 01:26pm

I think if they would have had this position from the beginning, it would have been successful. But now, it does look like they are desperate. You are either "open platform" or your not. Classic case of Dahua arrogance getting the best of them.

Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | 04/04/16 02:26pm

I think this is a smart move on Dahua's part: if they are not being allowed to legally challenge Hikvision copying them, why not turn the tables and copy Hik?

Now if China lets Hik stop Dahua, (on the basis of trademark, NOT technology) that would really be something. But since a unified Analog HD advances China's global dominance initiatives, I doubt they will.

Dahua could not look anymore desperate anyway, so there is little harm to their reputation. People don't care, as long as they keep the prices low and quality acceptable.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 04/04/16 02:29pm

Dahua could not look anymore desperate anyway

With friends like you...

Btw, one interesting point, Hikvision has not announced support for AHD nor CVI in their new 3.0 release, which is an important point of contrast. Technically, I bet they can but it will be interesting to see what business decision they make.

Undisclosed #1

IPVMU Certified | In reply to John Honovich | 04/04/16 02:54pm

Technically, I bet they can but it will be interesting to see what business decision they make.

Yes I think they can too, the "five-way switch" manufacturers are doing it for under $10 bucks already... Let's see if they use a combination chip or a combination of chips.

Avatar

Matt Barber

In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 04/05/16 06:03pm

Can you clarify on the 5 way switch? The link ties to a cabling article.

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Brian Rhodes

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Matt Barber | 04/05/16 06:17pm

Thanks, I fixed that link. Und1, if you meant something else, please let me know.

Avatar

Rumen Palmov

In reply to John Honovich | 04/05/16 09:02pm

Actually Hikvision has a new HD DVR line-up that will support AHD 720p along with TVI - DS-7200HUHI-F1 - it will be available in the next month or so. Along with the hybrid TVI/AHD/CVI cameras that Chinese manufacturers are spreading around - that means that at least some partial compatibility between the analogue HD standards is emerging in the forseeable future. Dahua simply cannot escape from this trend - so maybe they decided - "if you can't beat them - join them"

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC
04/05/16 12:57pm

With the lack of camera selections in the HDCVI lineup (to date), we have been doing MORE IP than before. Dahua just doesn't have enough to choose from in their HDCVI lineup at the moment. That may change with the 3.0 models, but lacking true WDR is a big drawback. FLIR has a 2MP eyeball line for true WDR (ugly) and just released a dome version recently, but they cost more than the 4MP IP domes from Hik/Dahua.

We found it's easier to sell the IP based NVR with PoE built in. No analog PSU to deal with, less/cheaper wire, cheaper terminations, same UI, etc. Pricing can be a tad more, but not much. The PSU being removed from the budget helps offset some of the cost, as does the cheaper WDR domes.

Avatar

Scott Gerrels

IPVMU Certified | 04/11/16 04:40pm

For the company that uses Google Translate to convert it's manuals, I am frankly not going to be surprised by anything

Michael Miller

04/11/16 05:02pm

We stopped by the Dahua booth to find out more about how to source Dahua products though proper channels. We have a project we are working on where the customer (owner of the company) had a "friend" that did CCTV work. Well that "friend" installed 120+ Dahua cameras in an end-to-end Dahua system. None of the part numbers used on site are on the US Dahua website. As I suspected which was confirmed by Dahua at the booth that all the Dahua products at this site are "gray market" product and Dahua will not support any of it.

I asked the Dahua rep about this supplier for the product which is a distributor in NJ.

me: "have you heard of this Dahua supplier?"

Dahua:"Yes we work with them all the time great company"

me: "ok great! so the customer will have a warranty for the product they purchased?"

Dahua: "Oh no they sell gray market product so they will NOT get a warranty or support. This happens all the time to everyone and there is nothing we can do about it"

Me: speechless

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