Trust, ***********, *** ******
****'"****’* ********** ****** *** the ******** ** *****" post********* ****:
**** ** **** ******* ********* about ********* ********.
China / *********
**** ********* ** **** that ***** *********** ******* to *** ***** ************ industry *** ***** ************ manufacturers *** ******** ** comment ** *** ******** manufacturers.
***** **** ******** *********, ******* competitive and ********* ****** ***** clearly ** ***** *** in ********** *** **********-***** ************, Hikvision.
*********'* ******* ************* ******, including *** ** ****** backdoor, ***** ******* ******* about ***** ******* ***** government *******, *** ***** public ******** **** *** WSJ *** ****** **** **** Hikvision's ****** * ********* issue.
Hanwha **** ****** ***** ********
**** ** *** ***** in ******* ********* ***** trust.****** *** *** *** it ***** *** **** top ************* ***************:
Key ******** *****
******* ** *** ******* of *** ******* ************* and *** ******* ******** of ***-******* *************, ** see *** '******** ** trust' ******** * ***** debate *** ************** ** the ********. ********* *** Dahua, ** **********, **** have ** ****** *** ways ** ******** **** question/issue. ****** ***** **** behavior, ** ****** ***** to ****** **** **** this ****** ***** ********* **** fight aggressively, ********** **** ****, Hanwha *** ***** ********* competitors *** *** ********* ones. ** ****, *********, make *** * *********** 2018.
Vote / ****
Comments (46)
Undisclosed End User #1
Obviously anyone who voted "Neither" is likely an Axis competitor. LOL.
Create New Topic
Ross Vander Klok
I think the "Who do you trust more?" question is a bit of stretch by only including the best (IMHO) Axis and the worst Hikvision, but I'll allow it!
Create New Topic
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
With all the recent vulnerabilities found effecting many different manufacturers I am not surprised trust is becoming a focus.
I work for a manufacturer and have heard discussions surrounding this in recent strategy meetings. And while it is easy for a group of people who work for a manufacturer to sit around and strategize what they will do to build trust, the execution of the plan is always the most difficult part.
Given the importance of trust, as seen in the poll results above, I would like to ask the members of this site, specifically the integrators, distributors and dealers: What can we, as manufacturers, do to keep/gain/earn your trust?
Create New Topic
Undisclosed Integrator #3
I'm just waiting for Marty to vote for Hikvision, so they can at least get one vote. :)
Create New Topic
Rich Moore
If you're looking for a one time sale, lower pricing rules the day. If you are a company built on repeat business and referrals, then sales are built on Trust.
Create New Topic
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
How important is trust in picking manufacturer? - For the distributor, reseller, installer or end customer?
The distributor or reseller probably looks on the percentage of cams that come DoA.
In most situations the installer is in competition to other installers, as the end customer in most cases is mainly looking at the price of the offer.
The end customer is not aware of "prestigious" brand or "no name". He doesn´t know the names of typical camera manufacturers anyway. Looking at the internet he finds more or less attractive websites from all the manufacturers or sample videos of new features or...
Security is an abstract value. (In most cases) The end customer doesn´t feel "more secure", when protected by Axis camera, than by Hikvision.
The look and feel of a specific client device, e.g. doorphone monitor may make a difference for him.
The end customer has to trust the installer.
For the installer it is much more difficult, than for car dealer to explain the value of a specific brand.
The customers knows the difference between Mercedes or Porsche and Kia or Mistubishi and connects different expectations and values.
But if different security cams deliver similar picture quality, why should he choose the expensive brand?
Should he really pay + 30% for an abstract value of "more security"?
How many projects are there, with a budget for detailled demonstrations / presentations or discussions on ethical aspects?
Create New Topic
Ross Vander Klok
"The end customer is not aware of "prestigious" brand or "no name". He doesn´t know the names of typical camera manufacturers anyway." that comment could not be more wrong.
I would think any large end user dealing with a system of more than a hundred cameras (maybe even less) or even one that has more than five years experience in the industry not only knows brands, but also knows more than most trunk slammers (and obviously some manufacturers) when it comes to camera brands.
Not sure how many end users like me are on here, but whatever the number it would obviously surprise you.
Create New Topic
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
I tell the end users that I meet to do their own 'due diligence'. I appreciate that not everything on the web is true (really it isn't lol) or exaggerated, bit like reading Tripadvisor reviews where somebody decimates a 5 star hotel because the ketchup wasn't Heinz, but in general good info about a product, it's origin and past 'issues' is available and a lot of it thanks to IPVM.
Create New Topic
Undisclosed #7
That’s some pretty subtle subtext if that is intended as a dig to Hik, since the article could stand on its own without any inference, and could just be judged as a straightforward Data/Privacy post.
Create New Topic
Mick Brown
We are only starting to enter the era of trust
before just a black box recording video images
now we have moved to ai (artificial intelligence)
large teams at hik dahua focused on delivering ai with no fundamental standards
you previously wrote hik installed at military airbase
with ai they will know
who the senior military are
and when they are at the base
Trust as I stated many time is the
key factor when dahua hik run a business like the film minority report
heaven help
the
world
Create New Topic
Salvatore D'Agostino
This is really an issue about trust (competence, culture, commitment and execution), throughout the supply chain, and the word trust itself is really loaded.
Create New Topic
Ben Lucier
(I'm not writing this as a fan of Hik)
When we install IP cameras at customer sites, all cameras are on their own dedicated VLAN and they're not permitted to communicate to the public Internet. So anything security concerns related to the camera itself falls away. Our customers are so price-sensitive that we have a near-impossible task of convincing them to go with anything higher priced than Hik.
I really like Axis, and Avigilon (we're Canadian) and would love for Hik to not be an option (for the sole reason I supporting a non-North American company).
This is my second post on IPVM. I totally understand the concerns that Hik brings (I think!), and I wanted to ask: in a network that's properly setup using best practices, is there still a security concern I'm missing?
Axis' approach to win the market over by talking "trust" feels a lot like Blackberry talking about how important security and encryption is in their handsets. iPhones security was "good enough" for most... and they came with a camera.
My point is: if a customer achieves what they want with Hik (feature parity, image quality, good enough network security, much lower price) then can Axis beat them by arguing about trust? For customers with deep pockets who won't compromise on security, maybe, but everybody else? I'm not sure.
Create New Topic
Mick Brown
With hik and dahua introducing so many new functions like ai and analytics return to site visits be more like 5 times a week
if cloud based it would have a chance
throw in viewing remotely via an app
and all those horrible insecurities bubble up
intresting customers discuss in this forum
only deal with high end customers with controlled networks this isn’t the norm for 90 percent of installs
any multi site customers want central viewing
they need to improve security never being on the internet is a fantasy
Create New Topic
Undisclosed Distributor #10
In my opinion there can be no trust with the products manufactured in China. This is not a racial or nationalist reason, it's technological. They've proven time and again that they are not up to speed with the current demands for network (IoT) security in the devices that they make, either they can't do it, or just won't. Almost all of the DVRs, NVRs and IP cameras coming from the major chinese manufacturers share a common component, the HiSilicon processor running it.
I would suspect that HiSilicon delivers this processor along with a pre-built embedded BusyBox Linux OS for the manufacturers to put their DVR/NVR/IP camera program on top of. Everything I've seen of this underlying OS is that security is not a concern, if it was then we wouldn't be seeing devices in 2018 still utilizing FTP and Telnet when these protocols were archaic and unsafe to use in 2005!
Add to that the fact that no effort seems to be spent in developing for modern interfaces. Can your device be accessed with a browser other than Internet Explorer, or does the CMS software from the manufacturer still utilize C++ runtime installation libraries from 2010? Have you seen any development or efforts to implement 2 factor authentication or secure protocols from these manufacturers?
The overall attitude seems to be "it's good enough for the price point", but this shouldn't be allowed to fly in this day and age. Security is the responsibility of the manufacturer above all and the lack of effort being put forth by them in this realm is ludicrous. We're running full speed to the edge of the cliff with these devices and the only thought seems to be "how many more can I sell before we go off the edge like Thelma and Louise".
I am very eager to hear the results of the Senate meeting on January 30th when they discuss the situation with these manufacturers and their current methods of doing business. Who knows, with the current hike in tariffs on solar panels from china being implemented, could something similar be forthcoming for security products? Could this spur a movement to somehow start manufacturing quality, well secured up-to-date devices here in the US? I can dream, right?
Create New Topic