Not surprised, their product base is too large with often little difference between models. Support is dreadful. They have also opened up to too many distributors in the IT arena, anyone can buy it...

A, thanks for the specific feedback on Axis UK. I suspect someone at Axis will see this and take a look. I do know from past experiences, Axis is pretty aggressive about correcting service / support issues.

That said, I am quite sure that support (good or bad) is not the #1 issue in Axis' poor growth rates. To Scott's point above, the bigger challenge is lower cost cameras moving up market and Axis' failure to respond.

"Axis...the line we love to hate"...that is what I hear from distributors. They cite Axis as the lowest profit camera line they sell, due to the high proliferation of supply channels. They know that when they receive an RFQ for Axis cameras, it is a race to the bottom price. Several are trying to get competitive camera manufacturers to replace/better compete with Axis, who they view as a great end user marketing machine, but not really caring who gets the order. This benefits the end users and, of course, Axis, but if one hiccup occurs in their relationships with end users, the brand loyalty of distributors and dealers may not be there to help.

Typical IPVM... Anti Milestone, Anti Axis and anti IP - I'm over the Axis bashing from IPVM, they are not impatial and their editor should realise they are biased and fix that. Its certainly making me think twice about renewing my subscription

Taking a look at Axis financial statements a metric for number of units shipped might be helpful in explaining the sales growth being sluggish due to declining average price per camera??

The sales (000 SEK) break down for Q3 is:

Video 1458.3

Other 3.8

Is "Other" their cloud services, Licenses? If not perhaps a better breakdown in its sales might explain what is going on.

@Undisclosed E Integrator (aka Axis rep) - as John points out, the customer's snap reaction in which they declared the $100 HIK camera looked superior to the $1000 Axis camera was essentially a blind taste test. A test Axis lost.

If a customer looks at their two new cameras and decides the $100 camera looks better, which model do you think they will choose for their next upgrade?

The main point I was making was that it's harder to sell Axis cameras when cameras that cost 1/4 of the price look the same or better. And if Axis costs 4x the money, I would expect better support, better recognition from Axis in addition to a better product. I also would not agree that Axis recognizes or incentivizes integrators. The Axis Silver, Gold, Platinum program is a joke - We managed to reach Axis Silver with ADI and found that we could get better pricing through Anixter as a regular customer. And then a few months later we got a nasty phone call saying that our company was being stripped of it's silver status because we had not met quota. So really Axis is better at punishing integrators than incentivizing them.

Either way, Axis was at one time a great company with the best products - now they are slipping in every department, and the Q3 sales are an indicator of that. Axis might consider themselves the market leader and too big to fail - but this arrogance has brought down Dedicated Micros, Blackberry, Pelco and many others.

[Note: Commenter is Axis employee.]

I'm quite surprised how many negative comments appear to talk about Axis performance. Regarding the Q3 results, everybody can of course make his own analysis, but the fact is the company continues to grow (being market leader) and in a pace that is in line or above the market expectations Global Video Surveillance Growth Rates Declining Sharply (Global Video Surveillance Growth Rates Declining Sharply, published in June 6th this years). However, announced year to date growth for Axis is 14% after three quarters, yes, far from the desired 20% range, but better than many smaller competitors and in reasonable looking at market evolution.

For the ones stating that Axis cameras are 4 times more expensive than comparable competitors, I would say that either Axis is extremely good in selling his products or that there must be some differences that some (many) customers appreciate. I recognize however that "good enough" products are undermining Axis marketshare and that's probably the main challenge in the coming months. John points to that when saying that Axis is loosing the medium low market.

It's very curious that some comments claim for the Axis channel policy which has never changed from the begining and is 100% indirect. The statement "they sell to everybody" is simply unsustainable since Axis is not opening new distributors with such a frequency. I'd rather say "everybody sells Axis" since in fact in can be found through many channels. Probably a matter of leadership and market presence.

No, I don't think IPVM is biased when speaking of Axis, but many times I see lack of deeper info on how Axis works actually and this is not only a fault by IPVM, but also the few comments from actual Axis partners to bring more info on how they are doing.

In short, we dont play at the "small to medium" end very often.. as such we choose much higher end, more reliable and more professional cameras such as those from Axis, Sony & Mobotix. As for pricing, yes they are a premium camera and attract a premium price, but Axis look after us well with pricing (we are Gold partners) and the service we receive from them is brillaint.

So yes, if you want to play on price alone then I agree Axis probably are not your best bet, but if you want the camera still operating as well as the day it was installed 5 years later.. Then go Axis or Mobotix. If you want to make a quick buck and sell $100 cameras then I hope you are charging $700 for them to cover the support calls and the cost of finding new clients that dump you cause your cameras dont last 12 months.

It depends on your market, your technical ability and the types of clients you service most.. If we were dealing with the retail and residential market, we would not be selling Axis unless there was specific reasons to do so. That said, where we have used Axis in these smaller environments they have worked very well, but not for the clients that just want to "tick a box" to say they have CCTV and dont want to pay much for the privledge.

As for bias.. I cannot remember when I read an article here where IPVM have been positive about Axis or Milestone. Axis are cutting prices and trying to take on the cheaper markets because they traditionally do not appeal to that market. I'm not going to comment on their management or push into various sectors but I do disagree that they are not innovating or that the innovation is "bells and whistles".. The cameras we are seeing coming out recently are brilliant and are worth every cent we pay for them. Their Q16 and P14 series cameras have brillaint innovation and class leading quality.

John, You are right in blaming Axis for being too much optimistic and expect market growths (and own growth) in the 20% range. However, the rest of market analists declare global market growth slightly above 11% (especially out of China). Axis Q3 results may seem so far from that, but considering that Q3 has been historically the weakest quarter and that the year to date (Q4 pending) lands on the 14% growth, honestly I wouldn't say this is confirming a clear declining situation compared to the rest of the market. Yes, compared to the overall yearly growth Q3 has been bad, but in my opinion it doesn't allow to apply the consideration to Axis general performance. Again, figures are really open to different evaluations.

As for the distribution, I'm not so familiar with the regulations in the US, but in Europe there's no way to limit the resale of goods of a distributor unless they are protected by specific law (like medicines, military, etc). This applies to all vendors. Of course, a manufacturer can cancel the distribution agreement if that is included in the contract, but that would only apply to direct sales from distributors, not to what 3rd tiers could resell. In other words, it's not that easy to make it "impossible" that the products could reach a non-certified customer. What Axis does instead is to ensure that no VAD distributor sells to end customers (hence not everyone) and when the distributor has direct sales (MOC, online ,etc) then reducing dramatically his margin. Also the Axis Partner Program is set to control discounts levels and margin protection for Axis distributors and Solution Partner resellers. I can only speak about Southern Europe, but this is by far much more than many of the traditional security vendors can guarantee and I rarely hear any concern about them. To be fair, this is a recurrent claim from traditional security installers, and from my point of view it has more to do with margins and mark ups rather than with distribution model.

John, maybe if you were not so biased against Axis you would have taken the time to learn about how their channel model works and you would know that the award(s) we received were for the following reasons

a) Sales of approx $500k a year or more
b) Applying the technology in a useful, positive and effective way
c) very positive feedback from our clients
d) proven product knowledge, market leadership and technical ability

Being an Axis partner does not mean we are aligned with Axis in any way apart from being part of their partner program that allows us to be price competitive and receive leads and enhanced support. We are product agnostic and do not limit ourselves to Axis, but its simply one of the products that work well for us, our market and keeps clients coming back for more. We regularly install cameras for other manufacturers such as Mobotix, Vivotek, Acti, Arecont (under duress) and even Hikvision. We do sell mostly Axis because in our experience their products are the easiest to install, produce the best results and the support, leads and relationships are brillaint. Our clients love them and are happy to pay a premium for it.

As an editor I would have expected a response such as "Thank you for your comment Cameron, we will take it on board and attempt to be more open minded in future" but no - you take it personally and get defensive.. Perhaps the truth hurts?

Anyway, it was a comment that I didnt mean for you to take defensively, it was not an attack, more of a recommendation to perhaps take another look at how you depict these products. I'm sorry if you were offended by that, it was not my intention, and was certainly not expected.

AXIS offers a very strong product line and builds a camera to meet most conditions. The companies strategy of selling the benefits of their product to the end user and then getting it pulled through the channels available is starting to show some holes. I feel by not supporting the integrators needs they are leaving themselves exposed to competitors. These competitors are catching up on the performance front and more challangers will appear. It would be simple for AXIS to gain back lost market share if they want to but, do they?

@Angry Cameron : We sold Axis cameras almost exclusively for years because we believed they were the higher build quality, offered best image quality and had the best reliability. Today the most low end HIKvison camera has better quality than an Axis camera 4-10x the price. No wonder so many companies rebrand HIK and sell as a high end product.

From personal experience, we have MORE issues with Axis cameras than HIKvision. Axis firmware has numerous bugs and all sorts of integration issues with VMSes.

Low end Axis camera have a 1 year warranty or 3 year for high end (Q series, P series etc) HIKvision has a 5 year warranty on all cameras.

So while I understand the theory that selling low end means higher support calls, I don't think that holds true in every case. The time has finally come where companies are offering rock solid products that compete on every level with high end products like Axis.

Nothing against Axis products, they are for the most part really great. But be aware that for 1/4 the price you can get something with better reliability, better warranty and better image quality.

The larger that Axis becomes; the harder it will be for them to keep up the growth of the past. There is less market to pull from once you have saturated it.

Axis has been an excellent business partner for us. My team tells me that their tech-support is responsive and always available. Sales support; also excellent.

Our local and regional support from Axis is top-notch and we consider them a true partner who wants and help us succeed and win.

The competitive landscape is changing and integrators need to find new ways to add value. If you are solely relying on markup of product, you will not last long. The internet has forever changed the business model.