This matter really confirmed that I did remember a guy had the same warranty problem, but Zavio refused to acknowledge the problem as if it does not exist. The guy got so pissed that he went to the trade show in Taiwan and confonted the sale people and guess what? They too tried to act dumb and treat the matter as if the guy was talking non-sense.
IPVMU Certified | 05/20/13 01:36pm
"The bitterness of poor quality lasts much longer than the sweetness of a low price. Good things are seldom cheap, and cheap things are seldom good."
Agreed and well said.
I think everyone else covered the camera and VMS issues. Here's some advice for you as you continue to solicit and evaluate proposals for your surveillance system.
Selecting the contractor is just as much, if not more important than selecting the cameras as you want someone reputable and will stand behind the product they sell and provide warranty service should something go wrong. Are they professional, have a uniform, labeled van with license numbers and business cards that didn't come off of a color printer? Do they have a local office or does the phone ring directly to a cell phone? Ask to see their FASA/BASA card or other documentation that he has completed the "alarm systems agent" training required by the state of Florida (every foeld employee from the salesman to the installers are required by law to have them), as well as a copy their EF or EG state license. Request a certificate of insurance with your company named as an additional insured for at least $1 milion per occurence as well as a copy of their bonding documentation. Ask for some references of similar projects and call them. If they can't or won't produce all of these, that's a dead giveaway you are likely dealing with a "trunkslammer" and you should probably avoid them at all costs.
I am an integrator in Central Florida and although they are one of our competitors, Security 101 is a professional organization that has a good reputation here locally, and I would have no qualms about reccomending or using them if I was in the market for a security system. They won't be a low price against a "trunkslammer" guy operating out of the back of a truck with cell phone and a gmail address. Seriously, for $10 you can get your own domain name, that ought to speak volumes.
Bottom Line: The bitterness of poor quality lasts much longer than the sweetness of a low price. Good things are seldom cheap, and cheap things are seldom good. Caveat Emptor, my friend...
Thanks for the heads up. What about VMS guys? NUUO vs Avigilon or Salient?
You pay what you get for. You will never get Axis cameras for the price of the Zavio. If price is the only thing you go for, the go for Zavio. If quality and support is part of equation, then there is a reason why Axis still sells cameras and the same reason I never heard of Zavio. In IP world support and compatibility is key. Value does not mean cheapest price and you should not put Axis and Avigilon in the same category with Zavio.
You should look at q-see or lorex for low end IP solutions.
I have at least 25 Zavio "bricks" in my warehouse, considering I bought 120 or so, their defect rate was brutal. Forget about warranty or help from Zavio, they just want the sale, and hit the road after they have their money. I switched to Lumenera with much better success and still have systems running the NUUO/Lumenera combo. The picture quality on the Zavio, in bright lighting is actually good. Low light is poor quality. Avigilon would be a better choice although it would be at least double the price from prices I have.
Sure, we will take a look.
To be clear, there is no way Avigilon or Axis can match a quote with $150 IP cameras. Nor should they be expected to as I really doubt you are going to get anywhere near the quality of the multi-megapixel professional cameras that are being offered in the other proposal.
One other big thing I did not call out in my previous comment is that the low bid doesn't seem to include any money for installation. Also, I am also curious what is being included for storage.
I can understand why you would be nervous about the high price of the latter two bids but the impossibly low cost of the other bid almost certainly comes with big risks.
Thanks man that was quite an explanation. I do have one more bid this one still in progress but he will use all Avigilon Cameras and VMS. Could show you this once I got the proposal?
Personally, I cannot think of any commercial scenario where I would consider a camera with a 1/4" image sensor appropriate these days. I'd also be very hard pressed to consider anything less than 720p (provided we're not talking about thermal cameras or things like that).
Rudolfo, there are quite a number of differences in these proposals, even from a first glance.
- Two different integrators - one is big, well known company (Security 101) and the other uses a gmail address. Maybe the guy with the gmail address is an awesome, super smart specialist but from the look of his 'invoice', the products spec'd and the lack of details, I am guessing not.
- The low bid has all older MPEG-4 only cameras. This will mean modestly higher storage costs or shorter duration. It also may mean worse image quality or low light performance because the sensor is likely an older generation.
- 12 of the low bid cameras are SD only (the $129 ones) while all the cameras in the other proposals appear to be megapixel or multi-megapixel - a big difference.
- The high bid is much more well thought, with different cameras specified for different locations, including 360 and 180 cameras.
- The high bid is including a 5 year equipment warranty while the low bid, which does not specify anything is likely doing a year or less (as that's more typical). Either way, this is an advantage.
Ultimately, you have a 'used car lot' proposal and a 'cadillac' proposal. I am sure you can find something in between, either by asking the existing two bidders or finding others. You're in Florida and there are a ton of integrators there.
As a matter of fact I got one. At the time though we were thinking about installing only 16 cameras now we are thinking about installing 32 cameras and the guy will show up this time to make sure all the cameras included. Here is one proposed by them when we were going to install only those 16. Also I am including one from another vendor where he is using Axis and Avigilon cameras with Avigilon VMS and the other one with Salient (removed by request from integrator, citing confidential clause in proposal).
I looked on Zavios website. IMO they do not have a "high end" camera, and much of their line-up was actually pretty low-end (VGA resolutions). I have not seen the quote or a layout design (you DID get some kind of a proposed layout, right?), but I would wager that you would probably be underwhelmed by the Zavio system if you ever wanted to actually use the system for real purposes.
As John mentioned, I think it would be a "budget" system, and the overall image quality and features of the software would not be comparable to a more name-brand system.
Because Zavio is so unheard of, I would recommend that you get some kind of on-site test or demonstration system from the vendor. I would be shocked if anyone here had much concrete knowledge about it.
The only way Axis cameras would be close to the same price as Zavio/NUUO would be if you used Axis Camera Companion, eliminated the VMS and stored direct to a NAS. On the other hand, this would reduce functionalities (though that might be acceptable depending on your needs).
That said, I do not think it's a fair comparison to match up Avigilon/Axis against Zavio. Both Avigilon and Axis have strong America based support, with lots of integrators with experience servicing them.
That's not to say Zavio is bad, but it's clearly much more akin to 'budget' focused providers like ACTi and Vivotek. However, those 2 do have a bigger presence in the US.
Lots of people buy Vivotek and ACTi in the US (also increasingly Dahua) when they want IP but they want to save money. Zavio is in the same segment though just not as big in terms of selling and supporting direct in the US.
Well we import and sell commodities like cantaloupes and watermelons down here in South Florida (Pompano Beach to be more precise ) and we want to implement a IP camera security system in our warehouse. I have a receive a couple of quote from some vendors and one of them use Zavio with NUUO VMS and I have another one which uses Axis and Avigilon cameras with Avigilon. The first quote it is lower than the second one. That is why I wanted to know about the Zavio camera how they fair against Axis and Avigilon cameras because I looked at the prices of some high end Zavio cameras and they are still cheaper than the other two competitors.
Rudolfo - where are you located, and what is your business type, and what are you wanting to do with your CCTV system?
Rudolfo, if you are unsure about Zavio camera, you can always talk to them ask to send you a demo unit. I think?
But to me, the demo on their youtube site says it all. Their cameras are just to noisy during in a daylight scene.
I know their price is really cheap. But ultimately you have to decide which brand is good on yourself.
Rudolfo, I know the company and I've talked to them in the past. I don't have anything bad to say about them.
From a specification standpoint, it's pretty similar to a lot of other cameras out there (like ACTi and Vivotek which are probably two of the closest comparables).
I guess what I am trying to say is if you guys can take a look at this brand of cameras. This vendor (Zavio IP Cameras) selsl Geovision, Vivotek and others not mentioned to much in your shootouts. Maybe take a look at some high end Zavio cameras and see if they are any good for the price they have and end users with low budget would know if they are worth it or not. I know that there are thousands of ip camera brands out there but I also know that there aren't only a few cameras brand names as well and maybe this camera is not that bad. Take a look a the link in this post and let us know.
Btw, as for frame rate, for the resolutions that Zavio is offering (1080p or less), pretty much everyone now offers 30fps H.264, so there's little competitive differentiation there.
Here are a couple links where they mention Zavio cameras: RWLabs, CCTVApp
There are vendors in the us that sell this cameras
Here is one I found.
Rudolfo, then you are the first person I have heard in the Americas talk about Zavio!
As for fps, Avigilon and every other manufacturer certainly lists their fps (alternatively called ips, typically when using an intraframe only codec like MJPEG or JPEEG2000).
I do not find many US websites listing or selling Zavio. There's almost no listing, for instance, on Google shopping.
All that said, the bottom line is, I do not what Zavio's quality is.
No. They actually sell this cameras here in the US not the Americas. If you research a little bit you will find out many US websites talking about them. They usually pair them to work with NUUO. As for the question "What does Zavio have to do with Avigilon?" I just want to know how Zavio cameras fair against Avigilon cameras and others, but because Avigilon cameras are mentioned alot in articles due to his dominance in the Market I was comparing them againt them. That is why I posted the link so that you guys could see that avigilon does not put the rate of fps. and I was wondering why if they are so good. Also I asked how important is this when it comes to resolution.
What does Zavio have to do with Avigilon? Can you clarify?
As for why there are not discussions about Zavio, I believe they primarily OEM, at least in the Americas where I have never heard them be discussed by integrators.