WSJ: "When Your Company Makes You Queasy" - What Should Hikvision Employees Do?

JH
John Honovich
•Nov 14, 2017
IPVM

The WSJ has a new article: When Your Company Makes You Queasy - As more companies get embroiled in public scandals, innocent employees search for ways to keep up morale

It's not just WSJ's investigation into Hikvision, there are lots of big companies with big problems in the news.

It does raise a question - What do you do if you are a Hikvision employee? Since the WSJ article was released, Hikvision overseas management and employees have been publicly silent. How do you recommend Hikvision employees deal with the coverage and criticism?

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
•Nov 14, 2017

Keurig CEO just made a half-assed attempt to correct the backlash from distancing itself with the Hannity show on FOX.   Videos of people smashing coffee makers have gone viral and employees are taking heat.

He apologized for how it was done, not what was done. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Nov 15, 2017

I feel like you’re asking me. Lol

You LEAVE...

 It’s pretty easy when company has zero loyalty to you. 

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Ricardo Souza
•Nov 15, 2017
Motorola Solutions • IPVMU Certified

I would ask for a raise. =)

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JH
John Honovich
•Nov 15, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Ricardo Souza

a raise

We've mentioned this in other discussions and I'll note it here as well. Hikvision has been especially aggressive with compensation packages in the last 2 years to recruit senior people. So if money makes things better for an employee that is probably a tactic to take.

They have been willing to spend heavily, though I am curious about how much longer they will do so, e.g., in North America, if they continue to face such barriers.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Nov 15, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

Not much longer...

LT
Larry Tracy
•Nov 15, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

I wouldn't bet on that 

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Sean Nelson
•Nov 15, 2017
Nelly's Security

if it truely interferes with your values you should quit or atleast start looking for another job.

You also have to understand the difference of what some dumb human does and what the entire culture of the company is. In Keurig's example, he was a dumb person that got involved in politics when he shouldn't have so not sure if that equates for "time to look for another job" mentality. However, if the entire culture is political and it goes against your values, then maybe it is time to look for another job.

Hikvisions example: If you prescribe to the fact of what many on this forum do, which is Hikvision is manufacturing a bunch of little war machines to combat the USA with, you should quit. If you think their cyber security flaws were just dumb careless mistakes, you should consider staying given their direction to correct it.

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JH
John Honovich
•Nov 15, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Sean Nelson

If you think their cyber security flaws were just dumb careless mistakes, you should consider staying given their direction to correct it.

Even if a Hikvision employee can ignore the 'dumb careless mistakes' in cybersecurity, the other issue is inherently political - that Hikvision's controlling shareholder is the Chinese government. The Chinese government has significant human rights abuses and is often hostile to the US government. As awareness grows, those things could heavily impact current or prospective Hikvision employees.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Nov 15, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

Exactly...👆🏼

Avatar
Sean Nelson
•Nov 15, 2017
Nelly's Security
In reply to John Honovich

How do you feel when you buy anything that is made in China, knowing that whenever you buy anything made in China, it partially supports their Government and Regimes? 

Do you feel that anytime you buy anything made in china, you are supporting their Govt with Tax dollars, which then allows Hikvision to deploy their "war heads" throughout the USA?

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UE
Undisclosed End User #3
•Nov 15, 2017
In reply to Sean Nelson

I draw the line at products made in China that are made by a Chinese government owned company.     

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BP
Bas Poiesz
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed End User #3

how do you know your keyboard, mouse, monitor, laptop mainframe, tv, smartwatch, mobile phone etc do not contain any pieces made by a chinese company?

given the fact that labour wage is low, many tech products come or have parts coming from China. Checking every component and it's source is not really a workable solution.

so, how do you draw the line? Based on gut feeling? or wait for IPVM and alike to show a link?

I am not saying you should or should not buy Hikvision products. But 'anything made by a chinese goverment owned company' to me isn't a line you can be sure you follow.

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JH
John Honovich
•Nov 16, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Bas Poiesz

But 'anything made by a chinese goverment owned company' to me isn't a line you can be sure you follow.

(1) There is only one video surveillance manufacturer owned by the Chinese government - Hikvision. So that is a pretty easy line to follow.

(2) You are at a bar. The bartender puts drinks H, I and J in front of you. He says H is definitely poisoned but he does not know about I nor J. Nobody in their right mind is going to conclude, "Well they might all be poisoned, so I will just drink them all." The moral is even if you can't be certain about everything, the things you can be certain on, you should take action about.

If one does not think being owned by the Chinese government is a problem, that's their decision but once you do deem it a problem, you don't ignore simply because other things may also be found to be problems.

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BP
Bas Poiesz
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

Well, my question was not addressed to you John. I am not surprised by your view, you have voiced it clearly in many topics.

I'll take the poisoned drink starting with 'H' as in intended pun.

My question to UEU #3 is simple: how do you draw the line at 'products made in China by goverment owned company'. The way their economy works many companies ar in part government owned, so the premise is rather hard to follow. Again, at UEU #3, not at you John.

 

JH
John Honovich
•Nov 16, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Bas Poiesz

The way their economy works many companies ar in part government owned

Again, factually false like your 'massive issue with ONVIF' mistake on Monday.

It is pretty straightforward to check such records on which companies are state-owned and which are not.

Again:

  • Video surveillance manufacturers owned by the Chinese government - Hikvision
  • Video surveillance manufacturers not owned by the Chinese government - everyone else
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BP
Bas Poiesz
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

are you secretly UEU #3?

JH
John Honovich
•Nov 16, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Bas Poiesz

No. I, like any member, am free to comment or respond to any comment. You do not direct nor control who can say things on IPVM.

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BP
Bas Poiesz
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

Well at least thats a step up from when you demanded me to answer your question after I celarly stated I was not looking for an argument, so let me quit while I'm ahead.

BP
Bas Poiesz
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Bas Poiesz

celarly = clearly

UE
Undisclosed End User #3
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Bas Poiesz

I am EU#3 and I don't understand the confusion on where I draw the line. As previously stated, I draw the line with products made in China that are made by a Chinese government owned company. Never said I have issues with all products made in China. 

I don't understand why some people blindingly defend Hikvision given their ownership and cyber security record. Might as well be talking about politics or religion, or cameras in restrooms.     

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

How many other companies in CHINA are semi-owned (same as Hikvision) ? That will make it a little more clear to others that CHINA chooses to do business this way, Not the same as US and we have no right to dictate to them how to run their world, do we?

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Bas Poiesz

Every individual will have to make their own choice when it comes to drawing a line. I know where to draw mine...

Sure my toaster might be made in China and even my Dyson might have Chinese components in it, these however would not have such a potential direct national security impact as 'dodgy' camera firmware would have. At least my choice is not driven by greed or simply money as the choice was there at one stage.

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JH
John Honovich
•Nov 16, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Sean Nelson

Sean: Hikvision is a subsidiary of the government, its executives are part of the government. They are not just some random company in China. Please do not conflate the two.

More broadly, now that Xi Jinping has elevated himself to Mao like status and is engaging in greater repression, it may bring further damage to China Inc 'brand'.

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Sean Nelson
•Nov 16, 2017
Nelly's Security
In reply to John Honovich

If 42% or more of the products you own are made in China, does that make you a controlling China supporter?

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

Are they hostile when we seek an increase to our loans with them as well?

BTW

How far are we indebted to CHINA? That hostile nation....?

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JH
John Honovich
•Nov 16, 2017
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5

Are they hostile when we seek an increase to our loans with them as well?

BTW

How far are we indebted to CHINA?

China's own debt is extremely high and growing fast. I know this 'US debt China' rhetoric helps you sleep better at night, but let's get the facts straight.

China's debt is now higher than the United States, see Reuter's report, excerpt:

Also, China being downgraded because of its growing debt problems.

Let that seep in. This is not the China of a decade ago. China has now resorted to massive increases in debt to artificially keep up its growth rate.

If you are worried about debt, you should be worried about China.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to John Honovich

Totally agree. I could never work for Hik for that reason, no matter what money they offer. Those I have seen leaving for the big money are struggling as they cannot meet the massive growth expectations and I'm sure that some of them now start to have moral issues as well...at least I hope they do

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

You’re 100% right. 

Just check out the mass exodus of late. 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #3
•Nov 15, 2017

We Americans have a pretty sort attention span. Wait a few days and most negative news stories will be replaced by new ones. If your company is continuously screwing up and in the news, find a new job that better aligns with your values. Beats a life of therapy and alcoholism. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed End User #3

Unfortunately, the short attention span is a symptom of our mentality here in the states.  However, the media has a responsibility to follow up on their articles which rarely occurs.  I will say that IPVM is quite good at following up.  The issue with this is that some view it as beating down the manufacturer covered.

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BP
Bas Poiesz
•Nov 16, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #4

The short attention span is not just US, it's in most places. Media are always looking for fast news. In dept stories become less and less in quantity and quality.

I agree with UEU#3, if the company you work for doesn't match with your values you won't enjoy it for long. Try to fiend something else.
The reason for not having the same values could be numerous off course

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