Subscriber Discussion

Writing Up Techs, What To Do When Employees Cost You Sizable Sums?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Aug 01, 2016

We are a young integration company growing very quickly. Weve gone from 1 tech and some subs, to 5 full time techs in a matter of months. We have one guy who kicks ass on a regular basis, but recently has been screwing up. His last job went over the hours budget by about 25%, and then we had to send another tech back in to rewire certain sensors that were not done correctly. He had other screwups on this particular job as well, but this most recent individual screwup is costing me a lead tech and helper for a day, a lift rental for a day and setting the calendar back 2 days since we also lost today with one of the techs troubleshooting the problem. Roughly 2 grand over and above the cost of reduced profit from being over budgeted time. Not to mention the delayed payment and lost efficiency.

I understand writing up an employee and having a policy with regards to doing things against policy, like say, fighting or other obvioius need for reprimand, but what do you do when someone who you know can do damn good work all of a sudden starts screwing up and showing reduced quality of judgement and work?

U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 01, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...what do you do when someone who you know can do damn good work all of a sudden starts screwing up and showing reduced quality of judgement and work?

Make them a manager...

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Aug 01, 2016

Rimshot anyone?

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 02, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Sorry, couldn't resist. But I wasn't totally joking. Without knowing too many specifics, like age, family status and former employment, is it possible that the job is not as challenging anymore, and that the guy is ready for bigger things?

Of course there are a dozen non-work related reasons/distractions, but that would be the one that comes to mind assuming it is not an external issue.

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 02, 2016
IPVM

1, thanks for sharing and congrats on the growth.

To me, it depends on what the cause is of the screw-ups. Is it something understandable - family problems, health issues, etc.? Or is it lack of interest / poor attitude? Or does he simply not have enough experience in those areas?

My general rule is that if a person lacks interest or dedication to the job, get rid of them regardless of talent level. A person without sufficient self-motivation is a person who will continuously cause problems and errors.

Otherwise, look at the project management side. Does he know enough to make those decisions on his own? Does he need more involved project management to tell him what to do?

Those are just some initial thoughts. It's hard to be definitive without being there.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Aug 02, 2016

In this particular case, its related to being on a string of jobs that were problematic, working long overtime hours and July basically being a bear for everyone in the company. One of the problems was probably due to just having a "fuck it" day, like most of us have every once in a while.

However, my question pertains more to when do other integrators write up employees and when do they simply have a conversation and try to help them out of a rut. More of an operations question really. How much do you allow an employee to cost you before you intervene in writing? How many times? How often? Not every day or week is perfect, but how and when do you intervene?

In this particular case: guy has over 10 years wiring experience, less systems experience, but not insignificant. usually a rockstar running 100% plus efficiency on the wiring side of things and 85% on the systems side of things. A solid performer, keeps his head down and gets it done type of guy.

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Michael Silva
Aug 02, 2016
Silva Consultants

Sudden changes in performance are often a clue of drug/alcohol problems or relationship issues at home. Moonlighting at a second job can also cause performance at a primary job to decline. I would do a little more digging to see what's going on in this guy's life.

In general, you are better off to confront and document problems earlier rather than later. Any conversations that you have with an employee concerning performance (whether good or bad) should be documented in writing and kept in the employee's file.

One of my biggest failures as a manager was ignoring or putting off dealing with situations such as these hoping that they would go away on their own. They usually don't - they only get worse.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 02, 2016

I agree with Michael Silva in general but that's assuming the owner (original poster) or field manager has their skirts entirely clean.

In a quickly growing company it is very easy to rush these guys and send them out without good specifications or advanced job knowledge. Have they been supplied all the correct tools and supplies or was the "faulty" wiring job a result of poor management?

The original poster seems in an awful rush to paint this otherwise exemplary employee a "screw-up". Everyone has a bad day but I wonder if management is the one trying to cover up a poorly managed job to cover their own mistakes and or overall poor management.

Have you had a simple conversation where everyone has a cool head and say "okay we had a couple problems, what went wrong?".

It can be easy to manage a 2-3 person company but as you grow you might find you simply do not have the knowledge and might need professional management help.

And yes, this "problem" guy might actually make a good manager and be a solution to some of this (and yes I did get a good chuckle out of the post to make him manager).

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 02, 2016

Sorry, I read a little deeper and noticed others had some similar comments so I am sorry if I was redundant.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Aug 02, 2016

3 - I am absolutely not trying to label him a problem or a screw-up, and Im not sure how that could be perceived from the original post. I mention he is a rockstar multiple times, and yesterday he churned out 18 hours of billable work in an 8 hour day. Im pretty sure he has recovered. He and I had a good talk about whats going on, how hard they have all been working, how I understand this affects their ability to keep things straight, and I asked what we could do to make sure he has all the info he needs. The main screw up was due to a bad reading of a wiring diagram. I give this guy and all my employees every credit in the world.

This isnt so much about correcting him as it is knowing what I should be doing operationally. I havent really asked how to correct him, Ive asked what I should be doing. I am asking other business owners where is their line? how do they decipher when to reprimand, when to have a conversation, when to be concerned for the individual and when to take strong action. Is there a written formula or written policy on their books? Strong action was never on the table here. This guy is killer at his job. He is my wire magician. This thread is about running the business, not labeling my technician.

That said, using zip ties as a sensor mounting medium is generally not acceptable regardless of who is managing a job. This was one of the more minor poor decisions on this job that didnt really cost much but was worth a good "WTF were you thinking?"

The job was not perfectly managed, and neither was the one before it, the one before that was a massive cluster fuck. The one after this probably wont be perfect either, but it will be better. Im looking for ways to make each one a bit better. You are absolutely right in that growing quickly leads to rushing and pushing, which Ive fought hard by constantly harping on how we do things and building a culture of quality. But the processes are not all in place yet, the checks and balances are not documented and the problems have not all been foreseen at this point. The project manager and I have already had a discussion about what should have been done up front. There was some documentation missing which might have helped, there is now a strict policy on wire labeling, etc. Action has been taken to make the next one better, more efficient, more supported, etc.

Again, this is not about this one tech or this one job, this is about the big picture of when and how and where the lines are.

Thanks for the comments guys, there has been plenty helpful here so far, and Im looking forward to anything else that is added.

JH
John Honovich
Aug 02, 2016
IPVM

I mention he is a rockstar multiple times... This guy is killer at his job.

Given that, I would definitely NOT write him up.

I am guessing more training and clearer standards on what should be done when is most important.

I can see 'writing up' if (1) you feel the person is not getting the message verbally or (2) that they are far enough off track that you feel writing might make it clearer.

Most organization, though, use 'writing up' as a precursor to firing and it just does not seem you are anywhere close to considering that.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Aug 02, 2016

funny thing, 3, Im meeting with a consultant this week. :)

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 02, 2016

That's great, it sounds like you are on the right track and I wish you all the best and success. There is wisdom in seeking counsel just be careful not to lead by committee which has it's own problems.

I still maintain you are looking to blame someone though as you seem to be looking for validation on wanting to "write him up" in your last paragraph of the original post and you seem to go out of your way saying he has recovered yet point out some nit picky stuff and seem to want to vent about the numerous "screw ups" of late.

Either he had a bad day, you two talked, it's resolved and you've moved on or not. It just strikes me as "not". IMO

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Aug 02, 2016

What seems like an eternity ago the company I was with saw a similar growth. We hired a consultant because we were doing 5x the amount of business and losing money instead of making money. That did get turned around.

As for employees and quality, both suffered. We instituted a mandetory quality assurance program and involved our service department and the end users.

Quality and profits went up. It did require refocusing some on planning, quality and communication. It required changing a few employees.

Our in house accountant was working continuous overtime trying to keep up so we hired an assistant. That's when we found out she was embezzling funds. The growth had hidden that. Our cost of product went up as we were expediting more products and the little add ins were adding up.

Our fixed cost pricing (door contact x dollars, motion detector x dollars) had to change. We lowered pricing on some items and increased on others based on true costs, not what the "industry normal" was.

As for this employee, write him up and keep it in his file. Documentation is always important. This would only impact his ability to get a raise or promotion and you can overlook that. If you have to terminate its best to have.

That's just my opinion.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Aug 02, 2016

In General, when technicians have install/service issues I have looked at them like this:

  1. Always communicate - if something "feels" wrong address it with a conversation - doesn't have to be formal, but should not be ignored/put off.
  2. Consider contributing factors - New Technology, Job sold wrong, Project managed unrealistically -i.e. look within, not at your Tech.
  3. If it is truly technical - Train, re-train, guide, use quality checks.
  4. Hours worked vs. claimed -
    1. I've seen Techs work at something for 12 hours that should have taken 4, because they have struggled with a challenge, but they gave it their best all 12 hours. That happens - communicate.
    2. Other Techs have claimed they worked 12 hours, and upon looking at it they screwed off for 4 hours (breaks, shopping, chatting with friends, sitting in vehicle "charging phone.") That happens - document/write up.
  5. Family Issues - Be sensitive, yet don't own their personal problem. Remind them that quality work has to get done when working.
  6. Continuing struggles on basic tech issues - begin an "improvement plan" with the documentation, tools, and time (that YOU or someone on your leadership team has to devote) to take steps to improve the Tech. If effective, you have a better Tech and future. If you take the steps and they still aren't getting it, they have to be terminated.
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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Aug 02, 2016

We have similar problems, one of our techs has been with us for over 30 years. Most of the time he's an outstanding employee, the older he gets, the slower and grumpier he gets. It's becoming a problem. I wish we would have documented poor performance early on and had him sign off on it. Now we're in a position where firing him is going to be difficult. Some states make it difficult to fire people, for us, we're going to have to build a case, and it could be a year or more before we can fire him without suffering a major penalty. Right now, he's working on service only and not new installations until we can figure out what to do.

My advice to you, document problems now, your business is still young. It can be as simple as writing on the service ticket the allotted hours and the hours it took and have him sign off on the job taking longer than it should have. Keep that ticket on file for a rainy day.

The above comment is very good from UD5.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 02, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Now we're in a position where firing him is going to be difficult. Some states make it difficult to fire people, for us, we're going to have to build a case, and it could be a year or more before we can fire him...

Why, because he could sue for age discrimination?

What state are you in?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Aug 03, 2016

We fired an employee who wasn't being honest on their timesheet for years, we spoke with them several times and even gave them warnings verbal and written. When we fired them, they sued us, and we lost (despite having lots video footage). We had to pay unemployment for a couple of years. This employee had only been with us for a year.

We're worried this employee will get more out of us because he has been with us so long.
It's unfortunate you can't just fire people in the state this employee works.

JH
John Honovich
Aug 03, 2016
IPVM

When we fired them, they sued us, and we lost (despite having lots video footage)

Did they give a rationale for why they decided against you despite having video evidence?

Btw, you say "wasn't being honest on their timesheet for years" and then you say "This employee had only been with us for a year." Is that a typo or because they way it's written seems to contradict?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Aug 03, 2016

It was a typo; I should have mentioned she claimed during the lawsuit the owner of the company was sexually harassing her, and she wanted to quit but needed the money. Again, despite having lots of video footage of the office space, we still lost.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Aug 03, 2016

When I owned an alarm company, one of my favorites customers was a group of furniture stores. They were very successful.

They had a female employee that was pregnant without the father around. They allowed her to stay in their home at no charge to help her until after the delivery.

Eventually she returned to work but was unreliable and they terminated her. She sued for wrongful termination and because her direct manager was also the husband of the husband/wife corporation they managed to break the corporate shield.

Their attorney recommended they file bankruptcy prior to the judgement which turned out to be bad advice. The judge was not pleased and this cost them the business, the properties and their home.

Eventually they recovered some from a malpractice suit against the attorney.

Sometimes these things amaze me.

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AW
Alex Wasilesku
Aug 03, 2016
IPVMU Certified

As an integrator myself, there have been many jobs I have been able to go far under the hours projected and few where yes I as well have gone over. None was intentional for there where unseen issues (such as a firewall that was not on the map, other contractors delaying me, a 300 ft cable run that on one turn got clipped and was no longer able to be used etc).

I was approached by my boss and asked, why? That gave me the opportunity to explain the issues I had run into and why it took longer than necessary or why I needed a second hand to get the job completed.

I had no issue having the discussion with my boss, for in his eyes he saw lack of effort, and when hes not onsite and I am, I completely understand where he is coming from.

I would say approach the engineer as my boss did to me. Talk to him, see whats going on, are there things happening in his personal life that hes bringing to work? Well talk to him and make sure he leaves those things at home. Over time people get complacent and do not realize they are not moving at the same speeds they where when they first started.

There is no better way for an engineer to realize what he is being viewed as outside the job site than from his boss. I am not saying instill fear into his soul, but a quick reality check is never a bad thing and after your discussion I guarantee you will either see your old hard working engineer or a seed within the company that's not willing to grow and needs to be replaced.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 03, 2016
IPVMU Certified

If a sower shall sow seed on the path or on rocky ground or amongst the thorns, it is lost; but when it falleth on good earth it grows...

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Aug 03, 2016

We had an incident today.

One of our techs was installing a maglock at a store front. He sent me a picture of a shattered window. Obviously, he's a little upset by his mistake. I told him not to let it get to him, 99% of the time he's a great employee. The cost to repair the window will be <$300, and it will be repaired before the day is over. We're going to have him write it up on the service ticket and hand the check for the window repair to the repairman. Doing it this way allows us to keep it on file for future (in his writing) if we need to terminate him down the road. And helps him understand there's a price to pay when you screw up. I told him the first window is on me, next time it's on him.

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Marty Major
Aug 03, 2016
Teledyne FLIR

This is a really interesting string... great comments so far! :)

Policies are great - and valuable - but I agree with those that mention being a human. Talk to your people. Find out what's up. Communicate.

I only have one specific comment - related to UD6I's comment about the good worker who broke a window...is the next one really on him?

While stating that 'this one's on me, next one's on you' has a nice cadence about it when delivered with the accompanying eyebrow raise.... I think this would cause the worker to actually slow down his normal pace when doing anything in the vicinity of large panes of glass, no? decreasing his billable efficiency... :)

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Joseph Marotta
Aug 03, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I told him the first window is on me, next time it's on him.

You may want to check with your attorney and HR department (or HR consultant) to see if legally you can dock an employee's pay for damages not caused maliciously. Isn't that why employers carry a bond and insurance?

U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 03, 2016
IPVMU Certified

It's totally legal to say "the next one's on you".

BS
Bob Schenck
Aug 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Definitely check your state laws on docking employee pay for broken items. I found a good article here on whether you can dock employee pay for breakage. Short answer is that it depends on which state you are in.

U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Short answer is that it depends on what state you are in.

Here's a longer one from the U.S. Department of Labor:

The WHD takes the position in its enforcement of the FLSA that deductions from the salaries of otherwise exempt employees for the loss, damage, or destruction of the employer’s funds or property due to the employees’ failure to properly carry out their managerial duties (including where signed “agreements” were used) would defeat the exemption because the salaries would not be “guaranteed” or paid “free and clear” as required by the regulations. Such impermissible deductions violate the regulation’s prohibition against reductions in compensation due to the quality of the work performed by the employee. Consequently, any deductions made to reimburse the employer for lost or damaged equipment would violate the salary basis rule...

Accordingly, any employer policy that requires deductions from the salaries of its exempt employees to pay for the cost of lost or damaged tools or equipment issued to them would violate the salary basis requirement, thereby necessitating an evaluation under 29 C.F.R. § 541.603 to determine the effect of the improper deduction. It would not matter whether an employer implements such a policy by making periodic deductions from employee salaries, or by requiring employees to make out-of-pocket reimbursements from compensation already received. Either approach would result in employees not receiving their predetermined salaries when due on a “guaranteed” basis or “free and clear” and would produce impermissible reductions in compensation because of the quality of the work performed under the terms of the employer’s policies, contrary to 29 C.F.R. § 541.602(a).

UE
Undisclosed End User #7
Aug 04, 2016

About 15 years ago, I had a poorly skilled surpervisor (to stay polite).

I reacted by downgrading the job I was doing. I think I was hoping to attract attention by his superiors and given a chance to explain this out.

I got attention allright. I was labeled as a trouble maker and never got a chance to explain what was going on. It took years for that guy to leave.

Now that I'm a supervisor (in the same company), I keep my eyes open for those kind of situation.

My point is that very often, a change of quality is a sign of rebelion. Investigating it could help alot...

U
Undisclosed #8
Aug 04, 2016

Easiest way to solve this problems is to provide clear written expectations of what you want done and achieved out of employees. You need to literally write down everything so there is nothing left unclear. And dont be afraid to give the rockstars more expectations.

If they arent living up to their expectations, I think a short verbal "hey man, why aint you getting stuff done" friendly but firm talk. This avoids the "writing up" which sometimes will affect morale.

If they still continue to screw up, then you do need to start writing stuff down and having them sign off on it. Usually a statement that says they arent living up to expectations and with them signing off, they agree to get back on track.This lets them know you mean business. Plus its good documenation for you if the problem continues and you need to fire them.

Communicating expecations is key.

JH
Justin Holbrook
Aug 04, 2016

Have a one on one meeting with the tech to discuss the sudden change in performance. There could be outside issues affecting work performance, or possibly alcohol and drug use. If the tech denies any outside interference, began the corrective action process. If there is an outside issue affecting performance, see what help you can offer to prevent those issues from affecting workplace performance. I would still draft some sort of corrective counseling to document the issues, and to show that a conversation took place to address them.

UE
Undisclosed End User #9
Aug 04, 2016

Maybe he lost his passion, work has to be fun and exciting when you are going balls to the wall as you stated. A great way to share you're frustration with the extra $$$ it costs you is to have him look at it as if he own the business, what would he do if roles were reversed?

Are you hiring? Where do I send my resume.....Sounds like you dont micro-manage, I love those opportunities to take it an run with it, we are all here to make $$$.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Aug 09, 2016

First off, thanks to everyone for your comments, it has been very helpful and Im hoping it helps others in this position in the future as well.

update:

The employee has stepped up his game, He knocked out 18 hours in an 8 hour day. After QC, it looks good, too. He actually threw it back on my lap and exposed an issue with our procurement process thats part of my job. I thanked him.

How did we get there? Well, this thread was always about how to handle these things going forward, not how to handle this one incident. I did what I have always done. Talked to him and told him how much his productivity means and helped him identify where the problem was (distraction and being upset about a personality clash with a new hire trying to prove his worth). We talked about how his performance has been excellent and how we have come to rely on him to be our superstar and that I really needed him to get back to that position and that no amount of new hires would replace the fact that he is instrumental to our continued success. He stepped up.

Then I did one thing I havent done in the past. I wrote it down and put it in his employee file.

Going forward we have created a reprimand form, but plan to use it only after repeated failures and as a last resort. This means though that we now have a last resort and a plan for correction based on experience and not just a bunch of "write em up" red tape.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts.

I may do this type of post again.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #10
Aug 15, 2016

I believe communication is a good idea in all but one type of case. If you have a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is involved, then early notification of law enforcement is important.

Years ago, I had occasion to fire an employee because he threatened others with workplace violence. I was concerned that he might be armed at this final interview, so I was armed (concealed) as well.

Thankfully, the interview went smoothly and uneventfully. Looking back on this years later, I cannot imagine what I was thinking. I have since learned a lot about the criminal laws of self defence, and this would have been a very dicey case - at best! At worst, I would not be writing this post. I should have advised law enforcement of the matter and stepped away.

In subsequent criminal matters, I have simply called the police.

Any other anecdotes of this kind of situation?

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: What To Do When An Employee Threatens Violence?

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Avatar
David Nelson-Gal
Aug 15, 2016

The core problem is that it is a people business with varying degrees of quality control. Early on in my career, we saw significant problems with complex installations which led me to do a data driven analysis of the problem. From that data, we developed "Design it right, Build it right and Keep it right" program.

The biggest issue was misconfiguration and setup. What we found is that no one person was mistake proof. So sales/field designs had a review-check from an architect level person in-house. Implementations had automated configuration validations. Production also has to have an always on monitoring and operational response. Even small configuration changes force revalidation.

Some of these things have costs which can affect margin, however, the cost of mistakes not only affected margin, but also customer confidence and loyalty. By leveraging automation, we could scale operations without scaling costs. By formalizing processes, procedures, and training, we could make human costs more efficient as well. For each business, you have to assess your own strategic investments but the right investments create differentiation and scale. For me, it also allowed me to sleep better at night.

For some of the issues described in the original post and subsequent replies, we addressed those by developing clear standards of how things were done. Relying on senior people to help define standards and train junior people improved even the senior peoples' performance as a level of status-responsibility increased job satisfaction. Moreover, they recognized that they were modeling best practices in every build and could lose that status if they let their own performance slip. It also meant clear accountability when mistakes are made. Peer scoring, self-scoring and postmortems allowed for people to have a hand in self correction before it becomes a career event.

At the same time, we had to mentor project managers and leaders to communicate perceptions of poor performance. The focus being on the performance not the person but in the end of the day, if someone was perceived as slipping and nobody confronted the issue, then problems perpetuate and the individual just starts to feel a lot of passive-aggressive behavior. For people to correct, they need to recognize they are being fairly held accountable. Moreover, having clear, fair communication also puts you in a better position from an employment law standpoint.

Naturally, any one circumstance can have individuals and personalities that can end up being unpredictable. Avoiding honest communication never yields a better result however.

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