Subscriber Discussion

Will This Work? Hikvision Encoders + 128 Channel Recorder

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 03, 2017

I am pricing a job with 32 existing analog cameras on Building A that may soon be upgraded to turbo hd. These will be integrated using 2 16 channel Hik encoders. 

The customer is adding 32 IP cameras to Building A for a total of 64. 

Across the parking lot is Building B that will have 32 new IP cameras and a 128 channel Hikvision recorder. 

I will be using a UBNT NBE-5AC-16 to send signal from A to B 

 

Does anyone see any issues with this? I have not used encoders before. My understanding is that I plug in analog and the encoder provides IP addresses for each channel. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jun 03, 2017

Yes, once the signal is encoded it's able to be broadcast over a network. 

Main thing is to be mindful of the total bandwidth you're sending from A to B and that your medium is sized appropriately. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jun 03, 2017

The thing I would be mindful of is the performance of the 128 channel recorders. They're notoriously unreliable and troublesome.

Had an integrator use them in a large install and got thrown out after a year due to reliability and stability. You're better off stacking the 32s. 

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JH
John Honovich
Jun 03, 2017
IPVM

Related, might be worth putting lower channel count recorders in different buildings / locations to minimize bandwidth demand to a single central location.

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NB
Nicolas Bellego
Jun 04, 2017

Totally agree with that.

DVR will be better than encoder especially with a WIFI link.

Only the secondary stream will be used if it's the HIK VMS that will be used. So less bandwith used.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #3
Jun 03, 2017

If this is a large office complex expect they might already be using the 5 Ghz frequencies for a AC wifi system. Unless you can get them to lock out the frequency you want to use in the Nanobeam system you will have random outages when the 2 systems land on the same channel. You could become the IT department enemy real quick. 

Also keep in mind if you go to maximum thruput speed on the nanobeam you will be using multiple channels at 5 Ghz 

 

all the ubiquiti equipment has the RF scan function so you can see what channels are in use before going live.  I keep a spare unit in my truck to use as a RF scan. 

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Avatar
Mike Rose
Jun 03, 2017

With that many cameras I would forget about the Hik front end that is notoriously cranky with that much usage. Look into enterprise VMS that supports some type of data redundancy. Expect service calls with your wireless link 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jun 04, 2017

That is a at best "clumsy' remark. The Hikvision unit will SLAM 100 IP cameras with ease so your 64 channel "mini-system" would be no conflict whatsoever on the up to 12mp, 400mbps throat of the 128 channel machine. Dont waste you money on a "flim-flam" VMS solution licensing either. Present both solutions to your customer, make 100% sure that you 100% explain where Hikvision is made and who runs the company and also make sure to show them all of the features of the VMS and then compare to the features of the Hikvision system which has only the most widely used features without any licensing charges plus a 'bumper to bumper' 3 year no questions warranty. If they request additional information regarding Hikvision refer them to a repeatable source that has no grudge with the Chinese people. Over the last few years we have build many systems exclusively with Hikvision recorders and cameras for a reason: why pay for AXIS or AVIGILON when you can receive comparable or better performing equipment for 1/2 the cost and with 1/10th the support.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jun 04, 2017

Have you ever installed a 128 channel machine that is claimed to handle 400Mb throughput? 

I have. You will be back again and again.

That machine is a nightmare to service and keep running.

 

Stack the 9632I8s and use a decent VMS. 

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Avatar
Campbell Chang
Jun 05, 2017

I have.  96128s.  FWIW , the throughput is only 290 across 110 cameras.

I have minimal issues with them.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jun 05, 2017

Then you're one of the few lucky ones or your customer hasn't noticed the dropouts, frame loss and/or lost recording intervals. 

I wish you continued good fortune. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Jun 05, 2017

any examples listed are actual working examples of how we dealt with this situation. 

Tried and worked out the bugs. 

Used 3 different servers and 60 licenses per vms

The cameras were HV, Acti, a few others 

we tried Constant, varible, Motion activated 

we found when recording on different server s you had results . 

Camera loss's, Drop outs , camera failures , reboots to solve loss, camera drops where we had to cycle the camera . 

We tried this due to the load capacity and demand on infrastructure. 

I don't think I was clear enough in the original explanation. 

This is not textbook , But when we lowered the Frame rates on the camera outputs , dumb down from 30 to 15 and balanced so each had the same recording information on the vms's 

The system s worked. 

Could not resolve thru tech support. 

Best of luck on your system . 

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Jun 03, 2017

I agree on the front end suggestion. It will be a pain to manage with Hik's non existing VMS.

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U
Undisclosed #5
Jun 03, 2017

About two years ago when i was working with Hik products we had multiple problems using encoders on the 128 ch Nvr's. On 2 specific sites after they had been installed for a couple of weeks the NVRs became unstable. Things like random reboots and NVR freezing would happen. We were unable to resolve this problem.

I would suggest following UM2 advice of stacking 32 channel Hik NVRs. There are many advantages. 

1. No single point of failure.

2. Can utilise hikvision hot spare mode to have a redundent NVR in the system. This is actually a great feature.

3. Higher overall incoming bandwidth. If i remember correctly the 128 channel Hik has 400Mbps incoming. 4 x 32 channel would have a combined incoming bandwidth of 800Mbps or more depending on the exact model.

4. Can Just use TVI recorders instead of encoders. It will do a better job and be cheaper. Last time i tried you could actually pull channels from  Hik TVI DVR into a Hik NVR over the network as if it was an encoder.

Only draw backs are additional rack space required and it is not as easy for the enduser to reveiw footage. You would most likely need to install software on a PC somewhere to give the enduser a good experience.

On my Comparisons the multiple 32 channels with TVI DVR setup was actually cheaper than doing 128ch with encoders. Not sure if it is still the case though.

 

 

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NB
Nicolas Bellego
Jun 04, 2017

The encoder are still far expensive than a TVI DVR.

Encoder could be used here if the VMS is Milestone.

Otherwise your suggestion is the best for me. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Jun 04, 2017

Its about reliability , Try using a vms from another computer with client capability's , stand alone HV 32 channel recorders , access the cameras and recorders from Hv software and vms . 

allows redundancy, and  reliability. 

any failures are stand alone and can be traced easily. 

Still have one unit for access if needed. 

Not taxing the system with one pipeline all the time so it takes a load off the system. 

we have tried both and hv has issues when multiple cameras are accessed from multiple channels or access pts. vms clients at a time. 

had to dumb down the hv camera to get to work all the time with out issues. 

Other issue is if you are recording hv cameras from multiple pts or clients you have to make sure to balance the bandwidth loads (fps)

The surges create drop outs and camera failures , drop off line , had to reboot the camera each time. to fix . 

example: if hv allows 30 fps max and you are recording from or accessing with regular intervals , from 2 different sources , You must have both units recording at a lower fps and the same . Both at 15 fps. Not sure why , but it worked after we lowered the fps draw s out of the cameras and allowed them to be set for same number . and the camera set for variable output s and motion detection . 

When we did constant with no motion it taxed the system and lost cameras from the vms's ( 3 diff., 4 diff sources ) had to experiment due to remote systems , Not accessible thru internet 

or you have failures inconsistently

Took a while to figure out what the problem was . and how to fix.

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jun 04, 2017

 That is an incorrect assumption my friend. Yes the encoder will encode the 16 cameras

for you BUT it will not spit out 16 IP address as you may be looking for it spits out ONE IP address.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Jun 05, 2017

no this is what we tried , worked out thru testing, got to work and all systems work fine NOW

Not text book and not tech support approved 

But works like we needed it to . 

No problems since we changed system. 

Had many problems in past software. 

changed to Vms software and No problems , no drop offs. 

Also when we asked for 30 fps , each cam on no motion worked fine. 

when we had motion or ramp up , some drop off s occurred. 

we could not identify where , but when we changed , lowered the demand , the systems worked seamlessly. 

we use low end 16 channel & less recorders for only small projects .

have not see problems yet.

When we used HV software on a Server , we had problems ,

when on factory units , no problems 

Not a slander to HV, Great Products by the way. 

Just good common Sense Solutions

Tried & True 

Not just written documentation.

Regardless of what the documents say, sometimes things work with a little tweeking of the system or dumbing down of system . 

We have many disappointment s to prove this out. 

and many success's that prove this out. 

sometimes its infrastructure your not familiar with and have to use , not change out. 

 

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