To play devil's advocate, why would anyone generalize that IP is better than analog? :)
You say he is an installer. Many installers do not care about advanced features or job profitability etc. They care primarily about how easy it is to install. (To be clear, I am not saying all or even most, but there are definitely many who think this way) To that end, and especially if he has 'been in the business for ages' I could understand why he thinks they are better because it is most likely easier for him to install.
Hey, I'd rather plug some in and have it instantly work, then wait a minute for it to boot, see if it connects, see if I can find it on the network, upgrade the firmware, etc., see why the VMS is not connecting, etc.
I was talking with an Installer the other day. He has been in the business for ages. He told me that he believes analog cameras are better than IP. And that he likes them better.
So why did you not ask him why he believes one is better over the other? literally, we can debate all day as to why he thinks IP is better than analog. Maybe he was stating a fact or maybe an opinion.
Do him a favor, send him an IPVM invite.
He'll have a month to explain it to us. If he never logs in, you get it back anyway.
Of course they are! For video surveillance proposals, certainly analog HD cameras are much better than IP cameras!
I always stated that. If you want to know my reasons, please read this article I wrote and published at my website.
Probably qualifying as a dinosaur in this industry myself, I can see that perhaps he believes the old ways are best. Essentially, setting up conventional CCTV systems is easier in the "programming sense", but require more cable; separate power source etc. The age of digital video recording, especially with network capable DVRs made things a little more difficult....but not much. These network capable DVRs did serve to introduce the typical security company to the "unique" and sometimes eccentric personalities of IT personnel!
For customers that have a coax infrastructure in place, coupled with HD conventional cameras, there is a cost savings that may be realized when they are looking to upgrade. The argument can be made that most customers also have a network in place too, so why not just go IP?
Suffice it to say, IP is here to stay and may very well be the asteroid that wipes out the dinosaurs!
Here's an example where HD analog would not have such problems from a current discussion.
The person stating the above is correct, from an engineering point of view. I will try and explain. The standard video signal, analogue, comprise of an huge amount of information, like chrominance, luminance, sync-pulses, video information and plenty more. It is understood, that if you take 100% of the analogue information and digitize such, then you will need about 120Mega Bits per second video per camera on the digital format. As we know, this is impossible, and bandwidth is very very costly. So, how do we do it in digital format, we strip all as much as possible at source, send the code via digital format and regenerate the sync-pulses etc at the receive side. Now we can have 156Kilo bits per second images per camera. The question remains, what did you compromise? Well, it can be quality (Cif) it could be frame rate, it could be clarity etc. The end result is that the analogue camera is easier to install, but the image is as it is original as can be! Please note: I did not include all the reasons and explanation, just the basix, and needless to say, each compression algorithm has it's own way and it's unique bandwidth calculation formula! I do hope this is worth something!
As and end user and also a consultant to licensed venues, the frustration and anger I've felt at times towards IP cameras, I do not recall ever feeling the same towards their analogue cousins, and I certainly understand why some people feel that analogue can be better than IP.
A lot of our experience has been with low light applications and this is where IP cameras don't stack up as well as they ought to. If we also consider the potential networking and configuration issues and the always constant threat of something dropping out or going down, I'm beginning to ask myself if we'll every be able to categorically state that IP is always better. Well, not in my lifetime anyway!
Not sure what wasmeany by analog > IP...
There is one way however where the simplicity of the old analog can win on many IP systems: Archiving.
In the old days. It was relatively easy to archive 10 year of video. Even a few years ago in the days of DVR it still remained easy. You just use the HDD in a similar DVR when you want to "see" anything ..plop the HDD and be done ...
I am not sure how to do that right now... with most VMS... If you take the HDD out all hell break loose... So there remains a huge advantage for analogue at least from my point of view. There is a product from Veracity that allows to just "play" the HDD when you want to research something ... Unfortunately it seems to be compatible with perhaps a couple of VMS . there is no other product that I know of that allows you to take out the HDD and play it back some time later...
Long term retention is a serious issue in IP video surveillance. Not addressed by any simple, straightforward means for the most part ... You are knee-deep into Deep Storage systems with Tape Libraries before you know it, the storage subsystems cost multiple times the original system with all its cameras and installation ...
The term better is misleading. In our case the term better means a better (reduced costs, while meeting the requirements). There are some very real financial benefits to analog cameras, and specific reasons you might consider them. Real Example.
We have a number of buildings where the areas of coverage are small rooms and lots of hallways. We needed to provide near 100% coverage with very long storage demands, and reasonable frame rates of 15IPS.
Low cost analog cameras, running on UTP/Video/12v power baluns back the a number of Avigilon Video encoders (single channel license covers four cameras) allowed us to meet the requirements at an affordable price to the client.
Cost reduction benefits include;
A. Encoders require fewer switch ports
B. License costs
C. Cabling Costs - we can send POE+ 300' (single plenum cat5e) away - split the POE out into a 12V 30 watt feed and power the encoder and four small dome analog cameras. We've created this as a kit, and our cabling contractors are able to easily install these when pulling cable.
Depending on the building, we go from the encoder to the camera with a standard Video/DC/Audio cable skipping the baluns.... (these cables are very low cost, and premade.
Any suggestions on low Light analog cameras (NO IR L.E.D's) is greatly appreciated.
Metal housing is preferred. Thanks
Northeast Remote Surveillance and alarm, LLC | 11/08/15 11:33am
Of course they are anyone can install them. You can even buy premade cables.
What a perfect solution for any mindless fool to install cameras.
1. You just call an integrator
2. Have the integrator wow you and show you exactly what they would do if they get the job
3. Buy said product on the internet.
After that buy yourself an easy pass and put the toll collector out of business too!
I'm aware of plug and play IP but the dinosaurs are most likely not. Its amazing how many companies survived all these years with little knowledge or desire to learn and grow.
On the Technical side, all cameras are basically analog at the sensor level when the CCD/CMOS pixels are converted through the Analog to Digital Converter then it becomes Binary eliminating the 1v peak to peak signal. Digital/Binary will always be better to deal/work with as 0's and 1's as oppose to Analog "Signal Strength" As well the electrical current is Mostly Alternative Current(AC) which is analog, few are DC.
From the title of this discussion "Better Then IP?" Well that was then, it might not be that way now! ;>)
Northeast Remote Surveillance and alarm, LLC | 11/08/15 07:42pm
I doubt the installer had encoders in mind. If your buying encoders you might as well buy dahua 2 megapixel cameras with 2.8-12 mm motorized lenses at $142.00 each or less.
Is anyone using encoders for anything more than integrating old customer analog cameras? Even then a good sales presentation should make for a easy upsell. Cost of an encoder with license vs cost of a Chinese ip camera with license is very close.
Most of the frustration and angst I've felt Michael, I guess shouldn't be thrown 100% at the cameras alone. The switches, the VMS software; the overall networking set up; the compatibility issues between different manufacturers; I'm sure they've all played a part in my blood pressure rising at times.
It wouldn't surprise you to learn that the cheaper chinese no name brands caused the most dramas, and although our Hikvision experiences were not great, I should point out that this was over 3 years ago. I'm led to believe that they've improved considerably since then.
And as much as I'm a big fan of Samsung products, we found that disconnecting and connecting the same cameras during trials did cause some headaches. Another example, is when a rogue Vivotek camera suddenly decides it doesn't want to have a fixed IP anymore. Just happens right out of the blue............
I am however, just about to try Vivoteks VAST VMS to see if this helps.
Most of the businesses I talk to are relatively small (under 30 cameras) and their budgets are not huge, hence the Samsung and Vivotek products.
Compared to IP, Analog cameras HD or SD have no edge....recording.
To say one technology is better than the other is limiting your arsenal of tools at your disposal. In the right application and customer budget any of the technologies can work well. McDonalds doesnt sell Tbone steaks or Prime Rib and they manage to stay in business. Your going to lose a lot of business if you try to Jan every square peg into a round hole. You will also kill your profits giving every chessBURGER customer a steak at the same price to hit their budget. The needs of a Little Ceaserestaurant chain is much different than that of a Healthcare System provider. All the ones and zeros with the magic to make pictures is awesome to us. Many customers just want great pictures. The first thing I think about is the Tommy Boy movie. When Tommy Boy uses the Steak analogy. When everyone feels the need to get a technical on every customer.