Why Not Use A Single 29MP Camera?

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 05, 2013
IPVM

Take a look at this recent install tweeted by an Avigilon employee:

There's (2) 5MP fixed cameras and a 2MP PTZ.

Compare to their 29MP product page:

I found it slightly amusing to see an Avigilon dealer go with such a traditional setup. But, as many have noted, the 29MP is a great way to get in the door, allowing Avigilon to then deploy more conventional, mainstream cameras.

Finally, I actually suspect the photo demonstrates a good setup. Two bullets and a PTZ are likely combined less money than a single 29MP, plus lower storage cost, higher frame, probably similar detail from the fixed cameras and the benefit of a PTZ to zoom in tight on objects of interest and capture far greater details than any single fixed camera.

Agree / disagree?

Rv
Rogier van der Heide
•Sep 05, 2013

Totally agree.

First of all, this shootout already shown. One doesn't exclude the other.

The costs lay to much on a single piece of hardware. If that one dies (lighting e.g.) or needs to be replaced, you're in for a hefty dent.
Also, you don't really have much redundancy.

In case of the photo above. If one of the fixed camera's dies for whatever reason, you can always use the PTZ to take over its function while it gets replaced.

Lastly, as you already mentioned, the frame rate isn't all too shabby on a 29MP. And I'm quite intrested in how the light sensitivity is of that one, since I always only see daytime images of it, and never night time. The spec sheet says 0.01 lux in mono, but doesn't mention an IRE.

JC
Jason Clement
•Sep 05, 2013

Totally agree.

GS
Greg Skarvelis
•Sep 05, 2013

I agree this is a decent setup. The 29MP option is very compelling however among other things, using a single camera to do the duty that we traditionally have used multiples for injects a single point of failure. This could be a risk depending on the infrastructure that is in place. Use the fixed cameras for spotters, potentially with analytics enabled and use the PTZ for zoom and identify functions. Good setup, maybe only one fixed and a PTZ rather than two but that depends on what they are trying to capture and the FOV.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
•Sep 05, 2013

Wouldn't you have uneven focus points across the field with just one camera, though?

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 05, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

'Uneven focus points'. Do you mean depth of field problems or?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
•Sep 05, 2013
In reply to John Honovich

That may be what I meant.

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 05, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

I wouldn't imagine there would be depth of field problems presuming it's a wide FoV and the targets are not close to the camera (typical I think).

I have heard reports of the 29MP running very hot / overheating.

AK
Alex K
•Sep 06, 2013

How can you criticize install without knowing anything about project or customers request?

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 06, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Alex K

Who's criticizing the install? Actually, everyone so far has essentially supported the combination of 2 fixed cameras and a PTZ over a single 29MP.

Instead of passive aggressive defense of your business partner, do you have anything to add to the conversation about the tradeoffs between these two approaches?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
•Sep 06, 2013

There are a few scenarios where a 29MP camera could be utilized for a deployment. With that being said Avigilon's 29MP camera is mainly for marketing purposes, I'm sure that it makes up a trivial amount of their sales compared to their H.264 line. The pricing is high so it won't be utilized in most small to mid size project. Since it will only work with ACC, your limited to large projects running Avigilon. Most small to midsize products will go for a lower cost solution, you can run 3 Arectont Vision 10MP cameras at a fraction of the cost with a higher frame rate and in H.264 (SIDE NOTE: I will never personally buy an Arecont product, but thought it would be fair to note).

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
•Sep 06, 2013

Does anyone know what the current dealer/list price is for their 29MP camera?

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 06, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

MSRP is $9,850 for the camera, without lens.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
•Sep 06, 2013
In reply to John Honovich

Wow, that put's it a bit more in perspective.

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 06, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

So once you get done with the camera, the lens, and the enormous storage costs, you are left with a 2ips camera that is either color or b/w only.

That's why I am not surprised that, in practice, Avigilon dealers would go for more traditional solutions like 2 fixed cameras and a PTZ (which is likely to cost 50% of a single 29MP).

Avatar
Brian Karas
•Sep 06, 2013
Pelican Zero
In reply to John Honovich

A Canon 5D MkIII can be had (new) for about $4100, with a 24-105L lens. It's 22MP.

You could get 2 of those for $8200, and cover a hell of a lot of area. You can interface to it via USB, and set it up to take an image every second or so.

Yeah, it's a total hack, and leaves a few things unaddressed, but for cases where you need high-res/low-framerate, there are some more interesting options.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
•Sep 06, 2013
In reply to Brian Karas

It's going to be interesting to see what Avigilon comes up with next once these new 4K cameras hit the market. If you can get 12 Megapixels at 20 FPS and 8.3 Megapixels at 30 FPS utilizing H.264 I think that will effecitely make their 29 MP camera obsolete as I can't imagine a solution where I would deploy it over multiple 4K cameras.

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 06, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

I think 'obsolete' is too strong. Simply because (1) many people judge cameras based on the pixel count (i.e., 29 > 12) and (2) presumably Avigilon can go up again - to 40MP, etc.

That said, each time a higher resolution goes mainstream, it does cut into the core original differentiator for Avigilon.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
•Sep 06, 2013
In reply to John Honovich

I meant obsolete in the sense that I can't think of a practical solution where it would offer any extra added value. I do believe it will stay around as a marketing gimmick.

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 06, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

Don't underestimate the power of marketing gimmicks!!! :)

Avatar
Brian Karas
•Sep 06, 2013
Pelican Zero

I have a new VsaaS idea... I'm going to build a 500 gigapixel camera, and float it on a weather-ballon. It will be able to monitor an entire state. Then, I'll sell access to a 1080p substream from it for $500/mo. No on-site equipment, no install, and it will replace a billion CIF cameras.

JH
John Honovich
•Sep 06, 2013
IPVM
In reply to Brian Karas

That already exists, basically. It's called SkyBox Imaging and they've raised nearly $100 million to do this. I am not sure if it's using JPEG2000 but hopefully....

Avatar
Brian Karas
•Sep 06, 2013
Pelican Zero
In reply to John Honovich

They're using satellites. I'm going to use a weather ballon. Plus, I'll have a killer social media strategy (key to success in the security market) and a complex channel strategy as well.

My kickstarter page will be up later today if you want to invest and get in on the ground floor.

Avatar
Luis Carmona
•Sep 06, 2013
Geutebruck USA • IPVMU Certified
In reply to Brian Karas

And I'll sue you tomorrow for patent infringement, and we both benefit from the publicity.

CS
Chris Scott
•Sep 07, 2013

I agree with the install we use the same setup at our locations.....and I am in on the weather balloon idea too.

New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions