How Would You Install This Camera?

Avatar
Ethan Ace
Nov 02, 2017

Walking past a local school, I noticed this camera install covering a set of double doors:

It's about 30' away from the doors, with the camera mounted about 2' to side of the wall penetration (a really ragged drill hole) and connected via flex. (Sorry for the photo quality, it was obviously dark).

Question is: why install it this way? Why not put the camera backbox over the penetration? When you're already >30' away, another 2' is unlikely to change the view drastically. Or, why not make the penetration in the proper spot? Considering that flex is hanging at about 8' above the ground, it seems a really vulnerable mounting method, as someone could easily jump up and hang off of that/tear it out.

What would you have done here?

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 02, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Not that it’s a valid excuse, but maybe he didn’t want to straddle the crack?

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JH
Jay Hobdy
Nov 02, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Could be something on the other side that prevented drilling in the desired location? lockers? chalkboards, etc?

 

Maybe there is something else they were trying to catch such as the doors and something off to the right such as the sidewalk up to the doors? Maybe there is a tree off to the right so the camera needed to be pushed closer to the doors?

 

Sometimes we do stuff where we just have to make the best out of a bad situation.

 

Or it could just be an installer that was new and saw every other CCTV camera with conduit loops and figured it had to be done that way...?

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Avatar
Ethan Ace
Nov 02, 2017

The other side of the wall is actually the lobby and stairwell, and that wall is pretty blank (I've been in there before). It's true there may have been something blocking, but there's nothing obviously in the way. But maybe buried behind sheetrock.

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Joseph Parker
Nov 03, 2017
There's something about liquidtight that always makes it look like a band-aid to me. If it had to be done this way I'd personally use conduit.
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U
Undisclosed #2
Nov 02, 2017

I have seen worse, at least he put flexible conduit protecting the cable, even using clamps... But, yes, I agree, horrible installation. Maybe he couldn´t make the penetration in a better spot, but that doesn´t justify not putting a box over the hole.

My installation: box over the penetration + flex to the camera + camera (height seems OK to me).

 

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Avatar
Sean Nelson
Nov 02, 2017
Nelly's Security

Another question is that I have always wondered:

Why install a dome with a wall mount?


Why not just install a bullet?

 

IMO, a single bullet is a lot less profile than a dome with a big azz wall mount.

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Avatar
Ethan Ace
Nov 02, 2017

Main objections I've heard:

  • Domes better conceal which direction the camera is aimed (typically) — though I think this is of debatable value, but that's another topic
  • Domes are harder to whack out of position — a bullet camera can be hit with a stick or bat to move it off target, much harder to do to a dome
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U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 03, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Domes better conceal which direction the camera is aimed...

Yes.

And IMHO, most people don’t even think that they are aimed anywhere in particular, as if the clear dome is some sort of fish-eye lens :)

UE
Undisclosed End User #5
Nov 06, 2017

Ah, yes, the panopticon effect. I suppose that's why supermarket camera domes are also partially silvered.

 
Avatar
Sean Nelson
Nov 02, 2017
Nelly's Security
  • Domes are harder to whack out of position — a bullet camera can be hit with a stick or bat to move it off target, much harder to do to a dome

Wouldnt that be void with a big protruding wall mount

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Avatar
Joseph Parker
Nov 03, 2017
Not really. If installed properly you could hang off that dome mount, which you absolutely couldn't do with a bullet. That said, I would have used a turret with a similar mount due to condensation.
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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Nov 03, 2017

That camera is also mounted very close to the fencing and it seems as if it would be very easy to elan over the fencing and interfere with the camera if you wanted too. I would classify this as a 'rough' install that could or should have been given a bit more thought.

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Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Nov 03, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Here are my 2 cents. First off, that is a Hikvision camera, which isn't really relevant, but just pointing it out. Probably the DS-2CD27xx series.

Secondly, when installing liquidtight conduit, you aren't supposed to run it through the hole itself. You should use a conduit body like an LB with a piece of conduit on the other side to penetrate the wall.

Thirdly, when making the penetration, you should drill from the outside inward. The reason why the hole is blown out and jagged, is they drilled from the inside outward. This will usually result in a large chunk being broken off the face of the masonry surface, due to the hammering action of the drill.

Fourth, if you are going to try to keep your conduit that straight, use pipe instead.  Making a single 90 degree bend in some 3/4" EMT and the small offset at the box isn't that hard. It would look much cleaner.

Finally, I also agree with Ethan's most important point; why not just put the camera over the penetration? You wouldn't need any conduit at all. That WMS bracket and back box has a 3/4" NPT KO on the bottom and rear. You could just use the rear KO and seal it up with some silicone.

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MM
Michael Miller
Nov 03, 2017

It's actually a Video Insite system so a Hikvision OEM.  

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 03, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Inside information?

 

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MM
Michael Miller
Nov 03, 2017

I drive by this customer every day.  

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Nov 03, 2017

And you can see the blue Advidia logo on the cam. 

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 04, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I drive by this customer every day.

Watch out for Ethan power-walking ;)

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DC
Dwayne Cormier
Nov 03, 2017

To me it shows the difference to a true professional who cares about their work and the client compared to a "fly by night" tech that slaps it in collects the check and moves on. Of course some blame can be set on the client taking the cheapest bid when cheapest is certainly not always best choice. But these are assumptions made not knowing details of how the install came to be.

SP
Sean Patton
Nov 03, 2017

My "put yourself in that tech's shoes" guess:

Big ass wall mount bracket box and flex was previously installed by an electrical contractor as part of a larger low bid job. 

Security Contractor comes by 8 years later and reuses the composite coax/18-2 cable to pull in a new Cat5e/6 wire to connect the new IP camera on the smaller wall pendant bracket. The customer didn't want any fresh holes drilled into the building, and just wanted the installation finished in the end of December when it was crazy cold and sleeting outside in Eastern PA before kids came back from Christmas Break.

I didn't do this one, but I've been in this type of situation before.

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