Who's Using 5MP Cameras These Days?

JH
John Honovich
Feb 23, 2017
IPVM

Ethan and I were just discussing this with regards to upcoming testing.

There are some new 5MP cameras coming out (e.g., Hikvison, Wisenet X, etc.)

However, generally we have seen people favor 2MP for either lower cost or better WDR or better low light performance; 4MP for super cheap resolution and then 4K for higher end / higher resolution.

Curious especially for those who disagree on that hypothesis. Anyone heavily deploying 5MP cameras and can share with us their use case / rationale? 

We want to make sure we are not missing anything when it comes to 5MP usage. Thanks.

Avatar
John Bazyk
Feb 23, 2017
Command Corporation • IPVMU Certified

We are pretty much standardized on 4MP with some 4K right now for the majority of the cameras we install. I saw a few 5MP releases, but there's not that much improvement in picture quality to justify looking further right now. I'm sure in a year, or two 6 or 8MP will be the standard.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 23, 2017

I agree,

hard to get 2mp or even 3mp

my HIK OEM only has in stock 4 and 5

 

 

U
Undisclosed #2
Feb 23, 2017

I just ordered some 5MP Wisenet X units because how their low light specs compared within the brand against Q (4MP) and P (12MP). Part of my rationale was wanting at least 4MP res. but with better low light performance typical of 4MP.

Series RES Size Aperture Colour WDR
P 12MP (4K) 1/1.7" F1.6 0.3 lux 120 dB
X 5M 1/1.8" F1.3 .07 lux 120 dB
Q 4M 1/3" F1.4 .15 lux 120 dB
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JH
John Honovich
Feb 23, 2017
IPVM

#2, that is good feedback and in line with what Hanwha mentioned - i.e., the lower lux rating and the much larger imager.

One thing interesting there is that of the ~240 5MP cameras we have in our database, just 15% (less than 40) of those have imagers larger than 1/2.5 and most older ones are 1/3" or 1/3.2"

I suspect then that the 1/1.8" imagers are newer / better ones, though a little strange they only do 5MP.

Maybe we should test them just for that... Thanks!

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U
Undisclosed #3
Feb 23, 2017

For me, camera selection is nothing but a math equation. What output do I need, and what do I use to get it?

I use 5MP when 5MP is needed to produce the images the client wants or needs. Obviously there are other considerations, like those mentioned above (low light performance, WDR), but my goal is to minimize the number of cameras being installed while still delivering the product that the customer needs.

Also, to your point regarding only 15% of the 5MP cameras having imagers larger than 1/2.5....I would attribute that to fact that a large number of cameras in your database are cheap chinese garbage. :)

I'm joking of course...sort of. And that's certainly not an indictment of your calculator, but just the fact that much of what people use is...well, garbage.

JH
John Honovich
Feb 24, 2017
IPVM

Also, to your point regarding only 15% of the 5MP cameras having imagers larger than 1/2.5....I would attribute that to fact that a large number of cameras in your database are cheap chinese garbage

In this case, the better explanation is that previous generation 5MP cameras (say 2013-2015) were typically with smaller images. This included Arecont, Axis, Avigilon and Bosch cameras as well.

Avatar
Ethan Ace
Feb 23, 2017

One odd thing about a lot of the 5MP cameras I'm seeing in this new generation is that they tend to use 6MP imagers. So why not actually output 6MP? The Hanwha models, for example, show this on the spec sheet:

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Feb 24, 2017

I usually utilize Avigilon, Axis, or Panasonic cameras so 4 MP isn't an option.

Avigilon doesn't currently make any 4 MP cams.

Axis hasn't made any 4 MP cameras outside their entry level consumer product AFAIK, which I have not used to date.

I do not believe that Panasonic has a 4MP unit out.  As overly broad as the product line is I do not see either a 4MP or 5MP camera on their product list.  They seem to have skipped right to 4K from 3MP.

For all three brands there is a fairly steep increase in cost jumping from 5MP to 4k.  I feel 5 MP as the best mix of resolution, light sensitivity, and cost right now.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Feb 24, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

If you don't need true WDR, 5MP would be a decent choice. The Hikvision 5MP models have better ratings in low light vs the 4MP, if you trust mfg specs. The other gain is a taller scene (4:3), if that helps your given scene scenario.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Feb 24, 2017

Some of the 5mp imagers are Backside Illuminated Imagers (BSI) which helps improve low light performance. The 4Mp I believe are not BSI. I have to check out the 4k, but I don't think they are as well.

Newer, better 5Mp cameras have WDR and other high end features without the cost of 4k.

Also, to save on costs, you can get lenses rated to 6Mp, which are lower in cost than 4k lenses.

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Kevin Bennett
Feb 24, 2017

We have been deploying 5MP in exterior locations for coverage of green space, parking lot entrances, building perimeters, etc., for the past four years.  The areas where they have been deployed generally have decent night lighting.

At the time we began deploying them, higher resolution cameras were not as widely available and generally cost prohibitive for us. Additionally, we had tried some 3MP in these locations and were not pleased with the results - insufficient PPF at many target areas.  Jumping from a 3MP to a 5MP helped a great deal in this area.

We have begun deploying 8MP devices for coverage of some of these open areas and have been pleased with the increased PPF, particularly in high pedestrian and longer distance views, but will continue to deploy 5MP in many exterior locations such as building perimeters.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Feb 27, 2017

I am surprised I am not reading anything on the bandwidth consumption it eats up to deploy a system full of 5MP cameras.  

After you do a deep analysis and understand your prospects objectives and find out what kind of network is being used, i would be extremely surprised if anyone suggests all 5MP cameras.  (with the exception of certain gov't with unlimited bandwidth not being an issue).

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U
Undisclosed #7
Feb 27, 2017

Bandwidth.  Our default installation is 2MP with back focus feature.  In-house comparison of cameras labeled 1MP, 2MP, 3MP, 5MP, 4K, and 12MP resulted in 2MP coming out on top when considering 30 fps, quantity deployed, image, bandwidth, and price.  We have some 5MP deployed for large outdoor area overviews but such a large areas practically trigger motion continuously so we scale back and record at 5 fps.

Also, given installation location flexibility, installing two 2MP cameras often yields more actionable coverage when compared to a single 5MP camera installation.

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Avatar
Kevin Bennett
Feb 27, 2017

We use a wide range of resolutions - from 1MP to 8MP.  We use primarily 1MP and 2MP devices indoors, and prefer a 5MP or 8MP outdoors for larger areas.  There are some instances where we use a multi-imager panoramic with lower resolution (3MP per imager) to obtain a wider field of view from a given placement, but if you go by marketing hype, these are 9MP or 12MP equivalents.

We have a fairly robust campus network, so while bandwidth is a concern, it is not a critical one.  We typically record on motion only at between 7 and 15 fps, depending on what is being viewed.  Parking lots and most exterior sites are usually 7 or 8 fps, crosswalks are 10 fps, and point of sale is 15 fps.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Feb 27, 2017

I would hazard a guess that not everyone is using exclusively 5 MP on a site, or what I call the "one-size-fits-all" approach.  In my opinion utilizing the same camera everywhere is the role of entry level integrators who simply don't know better and are looking exclusively at costs.  From a logistics, installation and cost negotiation perspective, it makes sense.  However, we all have tools like the IPVM camera calculator or JVSG to select the right camera for the right location.

For example, I have a 1.5 million square foot facility my team recently completed where we have 14 different models of cameras we selected with cameras from 1 MP to 4k, as well as some ~9MP panoramics represented onsite.

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EP
Eddie Perry
Feb 27, 2017

2MP cameras are my main stay right now. I do use some 4MP if dont have to worry about Lighting. but since lighting is usually the bane of my existence I play it safe with 2MP cameras

other than that the next standard I have dealing with is 4K. but then there is that cost factor so.......

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JH
John Honovich
Mar 20, 2017
IPVM

The Sony IMX178 imager is likely being used in these new 5MP cameras.

Key specs include:

  • 1/1.8” rolling shutter sensor with 2.4 µm pixel size
  • Aspect ratio 3:2 (3088 x 2076 px)
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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Mar 22, 2017

We typically use 2MP-3MP cameras but got caught up on the bigger is better bandwagon and installled 95 - 4MP cameras on a recent install.  There isn't much difference in picture quality but I do get to watch them chew up 60TB of storage rapidly.  

GA
Greg Austin
Mar 27, 2017

Completely agree with the previous comments RE: bandwidth.  Covering large outdoor areas with 5MP during the day gives you some better performance than a 2MP, but that advantage is lost at night.

Also we deploy a lot of cameras on wireless links, so aggregation of throughput is always a consideration as streams get bigger.

That being said we have recently been deploying more 4MP cameras than 2 or 3 MP.

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Tyler Blake
Mar 27, 2017
BCI Integrated Solutions

4MP is the current sweet spot. If we are selling avigilon or something that does not sell a 4mp we go down to the 3mp or standardize on the 2mp. We have installs with a lot of deployed 5mp arecont, but pricewise 4mp is the best place to be at the moment for bang/buck.

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