Who Makes Snapav's Clarevision NDAA Compliant Devices? [Answer: Longse]

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SnapAV is marketing an NDAA compliant line called ClareVision.

SnapAV declares:

As the need for NDAA compliance increases in the market, you can rest easy knowing that ClareVision has you covered. All ClareVision Cameras and NVRs are manufactured with chipsets that are in full compliance with the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) Defense Law.

That's an odd description as it only mentions chipsets being compliant and not the manufacturer being compliant (i.e., not Dahua or Hikvision).

Also strangely, it markets connecting these products with Hikvision, which definitely result in an NDAA non-compliant system:

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SnapAV imports a lot of Hikvision, e.g., a sampling of what import records show so far this year:

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So is Clarevision from Hikvision or who?

Any idea who makes them?

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Undisclosed #1

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Who makes Clarevision? (Hint: Who’s buried in Grant’s Tomb?)

first onion peel

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John Honovich

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But who is Clare?

The CEO is listed as Brett Price:

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Tempus lists itself as a systems integrator with over 30 employees:

Tempus Pro Services is the most respected and experienced systems integrator on Florida’s Gulf Coast. We have over 30 full-time staff members, ranging from application experts in our Experience Center to our highly trained field crew, managed by jobsite leaders with more than three decades’ combined experience.

Import records only show one recent shipment to Clare Controls, from Hikvision, nearly a year ago:

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From the FAQ:

Are your cameras NDAA compliant?

Yes, the ClareVision product line is compliant with NDAA regulations.

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Undisclosed #1

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Software looks pretty Hikey:

manual here

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John Honovich

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I think it's Longse, and Longse emulated/stole this from Hikvision, e.g. from the NVR manual:

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Compare to Longse NVR "5.0":

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Also, compare to Clare NVR front panel:

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Also, cross-check with the Longse camera below:

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John Honovich

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Related: Longse Rips Off Hikvision

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Good catch.

So Longse/Amberella?

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John Honovich

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An Ambarella chip might cost more than the entire Longse camera.

My guess: Longse Promoting Hikvision Partner Fullhan Chip Based Cameras

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The NDAA is at best Chinese Wack-a-Mole.

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John Honovich

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I disagree. There has been a significant shift to non-China products (Taiwan/Vivotek, Hanwha/Korea, etc.).

That said, going from Hikvision to Longse is not improving things overall.

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There has been a significant shift to non-China products (Taiwan/Vivotek, Hanwha/Korea, etc.).

Ok, fair enough. And of course, Whack-a-Mole is still an improvement over being over-run by critters.

Unless, the Taiwan/Korean prices come down closer to the old Hiksilikua ones, there will be another half-fledged knock-off, Longse, TVT etc, that pops up ready to take the business.

Nothing special about Hik in China. And it’s no accident that Longse is uses their interface without repercussion. And it’s likely more than just the interface, these cameras speak ‘Hik’ as a first language, which suggests that other parts of the firmware are Hik as well.

And isn’t that the National Security Danger that we are always talking about?

So yes, NDAA has had an impact, but will it last without comprehensive legislation which treats China as if it is a single corporate entity?

Perhaps, it will last because the word is out to hoi polloi with regards to China and security equipment, but I wonder if in our bubble we overestimate this.

Sometimes you do google polls; I’m curious if a question could be fashioned well enough to get a sense of where the average Joe stands on such matters.

”Are you concerned about the use of security equipment manufactured outside the US?”

”Are you aware that some Chinese networking goods are banned for use in the US?”

or better questions.

If nothing else, it could establish a benchmark for consumer sentiment going forward.

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John Honovich

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We can do more polls. One recent poll to give you a sense of perspective:

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as for:

because the word is out to hoi polloi with regards to China and security equipment, but I wonder if in our bubble we overestimate this.

It depends on what one is estimating here. I think there is still meaningful demand for home, SMB, and other cost-sensitive segments for China products. But overall, it's definitely been weakened considerably since the NDAA passed.

Unless, the Taiwan/Korean prices come down closer to the old Hiksilikua ones, there will be another half-fledged knock-off, Longse, TVT etc, that pops up ready to take the business.

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind, Dahua and Hikvision are far more dominant inside China than they are outside of China, so it's really hard for these smaller companies to grow.

Uniview has never done a serious US sales and marketing push and they are roughly 5 times as large as every other non-Hikua surveillance company. That signals to me what Hikua did in the mid 2010s is exceptional based on exceptional amounts of growth and cash that are not viable in today's market.

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Dahua and Hikvision are far more dominant inside China than they are outside of China, so it's really hard for these smaller companies to grow.

In a perfect free market economy perhaps, but in China, where there is an overarching puppet master involved, I’m not sure.

In other words, if Hikua’s name becomes toxic to sales outside of China, China just picks another pony to get in the race. Telling Hik not to defend their IP with Longse (if in fact that is what is happening), would be an example of intervention.

Viewing Hikvision, Dahua, Huawei, Longse, Uniview et. al. as just subsidiaries of China.com is necessary to anticipate what they might do.

One thing unlikely to happen, is that China just lets Hikua die on the vine, and leave money on the table, for the sake of not interfering with free market dynamics on principle.

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John Honovich

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in China, where there is an overarching puppet master involved, I’m not sure

I don't think that is a fair description of the PRC. There's a saying 天高皇帝远 (Heaven is high and the emperor is far away) that I think better represents the situation.

Would the central PRC government interfere in the video surveillance? Sure but how much and how deeply would they interfer?

Would Hikvision simply stand down and let Longse or whoever take their place? I doubt it. They have political power of their own.

And how is Hikua going to die. So long as the PRC government lets Hikua make massive profits inside of China, I don't see how the fundamental China positioning changes.

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Would Hikvision simply stand down and let Longse or whoever take their place? I doubt it. They have political power of their own.

I’m surprised to see you take the more sanguine position over the realpolitik one. Mainly because you’ve taught me everything I know about Chinese market economics :)

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Undisclosed #1

•Jul 23, 2021

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Would the central PRC government interfere in the video surveillance? Sure but how much and how deeply would they interfer? Would Hikvision simply stand down and let Longse or whoever take their place? I doubt it. They have political power of their own.

Perhaps this is a well thought-out Chinese attempt of not giving up the Hikua marketplace due to the NDAA?

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John Honovich

•Jul 23, 2021

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