I have a project on a riverfront that has TONS of insects. I need to try and find a bullet camera with 940nm IR, a minimum of 8MP resolution, hopefully a varifocal lens with around 3-12mm (about 40 degree HOV needed), and not either be a generic, untrustworthy brand, or way too expensive. Something in the $200 to $1000 range would be considered.
My other option is using external IR to keep the bugs away from the camera lens, but I would prefer a camera that can provide an integrated solution.
I don't know of anyone so I think it is at least rate. There are more cameras coming with 940nm integrated but still pretty limited. I'll send this out to see if anyone can help.
What is the operational goal of the camera? Do you need to ID a person at night, or just if there is a person along the riverfront? Could you use a Non-IR Camera in conjunction with an Axis P1280 Thermal? The external IR may be the better option, I was just trying to come up with alternatives.
Identification is the only reason we were asked to upgrade the existing system. This is a marina on a riverfront that has had many break ins and their Sams Club box kit, obviously, was not able to give them appropriate images of the offenders.
We have one main building and one outbuilding that we can easily mount cameras. We need about 75’ max of identifying level of quality from any point on the property.
The actual dock areas are narrow, so we are focusing on covering those with a minimum of 50 PPF. We originally wanted to try Darkfighter or other super low light cameras, but we just didn’t have enough PPF at the far end of the camera range with the lower (2-3MP) resolution imagers, which forced us to use higher resolution (8MP+) imagers in our plans.
Of course 8MP isn’t going to cut it in color mode, but 840nm IR on the camera is going to attract tons of insects and spiders. We don’t want a solution that needs cleaned daily. We were on site with a test rig for about an hour and already had spiders on our lens.
I have yet to come across any 940nm offerings from any reputable manufacturer in the last 8+ years. If I were in your shoes, a Raytec Vario2 VAR2-i2-1 with the 35 degree, or even 10 degree diffuser, so you can get a long, narrow beam. Using the 940nm version, you should still get the distance you need out of this small unit, for sure with the 10 degree lens.
Stupid question, but are most cameras 940nm sensitive? Do you need a special camera to leverage the 940nm external IR?
Stupid question, but are most cameras 940nm sensitive? Do you need a special camera to leverage the 940nm external IR?
Generally, yes *most are sensitive*, as I recall, typically however they require twice as much power for the same illumination.
*edit
Understood. When I read riverfront, and based on the issues our local river and canal frontage has, I was wondering if it might be for monitoring or alerting if people/cars/property/Zambonis fall into the water.
Have you seen this 4K, 940nm, dual imager, recently reviewed here?
Also, a few other 940 nm cameras are mentioned in this discussion (none 4K), How To Minimize False Alarms From Insects At Night?, which most notably contains some random speculation on the efficacy of 940nm vis a vis insects, by yours truly...
I said reasonably priced....
I could sell them autotracking PTZs at near that price point.
FLIR expects the MSRP to be in the low to mid $2,000’s...
Breaking industry news:
1. U.S. Gov bans Hikua
2. Arecont files for bankruptcy
3. Dillabaugh pays retail
;)
The lower my cost, the more units this customer will be able to afford. But, a $2000 MSRP unit is still going to cost my client..... ~$2000.
I was hoping to keep the cost as low as possible without missing the goal of identifying subjects in their target areas. If that can be accomplished at $200 their cost, so be it. If it ends up the only way is $2000 per unit, they will only be able to afford one camera, which will cover 25% of their desired areas. I don't think I can close that deal.
Unfortunately that one is going to potentially cost more than twice his stated max budget of $1000
Axis P1448-LE with IR disabled, and Raytec Vario2 VAR2-i2-1 940nm, bought at reseller pricing should be sub $1k.
Seems as though the part number Raytec Vario2 VAR2-i2-1 is an 850nm unit. The Raytec Vario2 VAR2-i2-1-c unit however is 940nm, but the spec sheet simply says "Ask Raytec" for distance specs. Any chance you have real world results and can give me guidance here?
Hi John,
The IR229 is part of our lower cost OPTO series.
https://iluminarinc.com/pdf/opto/infra-red/IR229_Series.pdf
Iluminar has offered, and sold, this unit for over 9 years worldwide.
The IR229 940nm units are used where no red LED's can be seen (i.e. sleep labs, law enforcement applications, applications that has to do with animals, traffic and transportation applications, etc).
Basically, any application, such as yours, where you need extra light and you don't want to see any red glow.
Iluminar has never had any issues with this products. We want to make sure we help you specify the correct model number to make sure you get the best results.
Just out of curiosity, can you verify that your stated specs are the same for the 850nm and 940nm units? Most other brands have lesser specs on their 940nm units, so I just want to be sure to specify a proper unit.
Hi John,
When you use an illuminator that has 940nm LED's vs 850nm LED's, the distance gets cut in half.
Thanks for the tidbit of information, "Eddie". :) That was the first I heard of that.
Just to be clear, the statement
When you use an illuminator that has 940nm LED's vs 850nm LED's, the distance gets cut in half.
helpful as it might seem as a rule of thumb, could be misleading since the full explanation is more technically nuanced. (No disparagement intended towards Eddie, I am also guilty of a similar statement).
The distance getting cut in half is not due to the output of the illuminator itself; rather it’s due to an approximation of the expected reduced sensitivity of the camera sensor at longer wavelengths.
Unlike 850nm, 940nm sensitivity is much more variable and hence a camera dependent effect.
Therefore, adequate pre-sales field testing is even more important than normal, if trying to insure that the necessary performance can be achieved between a particular camera and illuminator.
Thank you for the extra explanation.
No offense taken.
I've been selling lighting for over 18 years and am a former owner of Raytec USA.
If you want to add the technical knowledge you know, please feel free to.
You're welcome Luis.
We use it as a general rule for secure cameras in the market.
Most cameras in the security market aren't as sensitive to a 940nm vs an 850nm.
If you are using a 1/2 CCD chip or a military style camera, then you could get a longer distance.
Been a long time fan and reseller of Raytec. Majority of their products have a 940nm equivalent, including this one. The obvious downside is that 940nm is about 40% as effective, or as powerful as the 850nm equivalent versions. And cheaper cams have a hard time collecting 940nm as do better, more sensitive cams (not 100% sure on this. We dont use the cheap stuff.)
If you are open to mounting a stand alone IR lamp away from the cam, maybe stick with an 850nm unit to harness the extra power, while still disabling the IR in the P1448-LE.
Thanks Mark, all very good points. I think that is the road I will travel. 850nm away from the camera. That will keep the price down and the bugs away.
Iluminar also offers 940nm infrared units. Our IR229 series have 100% invisible LED's. This unit will also fit into your price point.
I appreciate the input. Can you give me an exact model number of your unit that has 940nm output up to 100ft? I need at least a 40 degree angle, but would prefer wider to allow placement not next to the actual camera. Maybe around 60 degrees with 100ft range?
The IR229-C30-24. This unit will do 30 degrees at 65'.
Call your local distributor, or wherever you get your products, for pricing.
Iluminar has this unit in stock.
I think by researching your spec sheets, the IR623-C60-PoE-2 would be the best for my application. It has 940nm with 60 degrees at 118ft of range with PoE power. That seems like a good fit.
John,
If you want to use an 850nm unit, and mount it away from your camera, then we also can offer you, from our low cost OPTO series, the IRC99-60-24. This unit will do 60 degrees at 99'.
https://iluminarinc.com/pdf/opto/infra-red/IRC99-Series-v1.0.pdf
Hi John,
This would be a good fit, however, this doesn't fit your your price point.
I'm specifying the best performing 940nm unit, where you won't see any red glow, that will fit into your budget.
Hello John
you may want to look at our Videotec IRH series offered in 940Nm Fully covert. The 10 degree narrow beam will offer over 300ft and the 60degree over 100ft.
Thanks
Gianni
FWIW, in addition to reduced sensor sensitivity, also to note that due to the longer wavelength in 940nm, details are not as sharp as 850nm:
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