Subscriber Discussion

Which Recorders Do Not Charge Per Channel Licensing?

RK
Rashid Khan
Apr 15, 2017

Which manufacturers do not charge per channel licencing?

Hardware (NVR, DVR) or VMS

Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Apr 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified
RK
Rashid Khan
Apr 15, 2017

But that does not include hardware like NVR DVR etc

For example, Hikvision & Dahua don't charge per channel.

Does Hanwha charge per channel on their NVR/DVR or SSM?

U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified

That's an interesting point.

From what I've seen, NVR's and DVR's, bought pre-built from the manufacturer as such, don't usually require additional licenses to be purchased.

On the other hand, I have seen NASes follow the pay as you go model on their own hardware, like netgear for example.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Apr 19, 2017

Hanwha nvrs do not have any channel or other licensing fees. 

Specs are for number of channels and total recording throughput. To add cameras simply follow ui to add hanwha/Samsung, onvif, or rtsp. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 15, 2017

Hikvision NVR don't charge per channel... Their not-free VMS however does. IOW you have a 64-channel NVR with 64 cameras on ot that you would like to manage through the iVMS 5200 you pay for 64 licences... I believe they just released the Hikvision Hikcentral in North America. So far not much information even on their North America website.

There is also the odd case of Milestone which charges per IP address. If the NVR (as in the case of some Dahua) is recognized by their VMS you pay for just one license however the number of channel on the NVR (in principle ... I don't know for how long and if it will apply for a device with 64 channels for example.)

MC
Marty Calhoun
Apr 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Wrong answer "Their not-free VMS however does" is not true.

HIKVISION does not sell a software VMS solution in the same form as other manufacturers. HIKVISION produces appliances (NVR's) that are the actual recording devices in place of clunky PC's systems of yesterday.

HIKVISION offers a FREE software (iVMS-4200) that interacts with the NVR, Decoder, Video Wall, etc for full control capabilities. (Not unlike more expensive "VMS Software"). 

HIKVISION iVMS-4200 is an excellent FREE choice to manage your small systems and offers many of the same VMS features for FREE with ZERO licensing costs.

(iVMS-5200) actual name is Hik-Central and it is not a VMS and not intended as one, it is a Hik-Centric management platform to MANAGE multiple HIKVISION NVR's, DVR's and the cameras attached to them. Generally reserved for large scale enterprise level deployments.

Ask yourself, would you enjoy having more IP Cameras or pay a LICENSE Fee with that cash that is un-needed? HIKVISION has MANY package deals with NVR, (8) IP Cameras and FREE software for under $ 700.00 bucks. Why buy a "Value-Line" system from COSCO when you can buy a system made by the # 1 company in the World (HIKVISION) for the same or less cost? Then when you need to move up you can slip right into Hik-Central for minimal costs.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified

iVMS 5200... is not a VMS and is not intended as one...

So then iVMS 5200 cannot replace 4200, correct?

U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

(iVMS-5200)... it is not a VMS and not intended as one.

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MC
Marty Calhoun
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

 

If you wont accept what I said ask any "informed" RSM from Hikvision.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

If you wont accept what I said ask any "informed" RSM from Hikvision.

I would accept what you say over any mere RSM. Your information seems to come from a higher authority.

The problem is just that, I don't see how you can be right about 5200 not being a VMS or even being intended as a VMS when there is material like this directly from Hik out there:

JH
John Honovich
Apr 16, 2017
IPVM

Overall, I agree with Marty's description though as #2 points out there is confusion when viewing marketing descriptions across Hikvision's global documentation.

(iVMS-5200) actual name is Hik-Central and it is not a VMS and not intended as one, it is a Hik-Centric management platform to MANAGE multiple HIKVISION NVR's, DVR's and the cameras attached to them. Generally reserved for large scale enterprise level deployments.

That is what Hikvision described to us at ISC West with the main minor exception that they described HikCentral as the next generation / version of iVMS-5200.

Related, the Hikvision USA team describes Hik-Central as a 'CMS', not a 'VMS':

That said, I do think in other parts of the world iVMS-5200 is being sold / used as a VMS but, e.g., in terms of 3rd party camera support, Hikvision USA made it clear that would be done through their NVR / DVRs, not HikCentral.

MC
Marty Calhoun
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

thank you Mr Honovitch

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Apr 16, 2017

This CMS vs VMS confusion is a pretty common issue with APAC manufacturers.

U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

One simple question then for you or Marty:

  1. Does ivms-5200 have a recording component?
JH
John Honovich
Apr 16, 2017
IPVM

Hikvision told us that HikCentral does not record, period. As Marty says, it is a management application.

However, iVMS-5200 at least from our previous review does have an option to store / record, e.g., mentioned on this datasheet.

At ISC West, Hikvision showed the Blazer Express as effectively a compliment to HikCentral. Like HikCentral, it runs on Windows and it has a similar user interface. However, unlike HiKCentral, the Blazer records video but, so far only from Hikvision's own cameras as shown in the excerpt below:

U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Ok, but then this statement is still misleading

(iVMS-5200) actual name is Hik-Central and it is not a VMS and not intended as one....

since Hikcentral <> 5200 because 5200 is a VMS and Hikcentral is not.

So basically it sounds as though iVMS-5200, the VMS, will not actually be released in the U.S., after all.

MC
Marty Calhoun
Apr 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I dont feel the need to get "in the weeds" with anyone over Hik-Central. We have deployed one full system and have a second in development. I suggest that you develop a relationship with your RSM (not ADI or Anixter) and they will help you the best. If you get no satisfaction in short order (which would be unusual) then hit me back and I will connect you with someone but do your homework yourself FIRST, like I did. They have been a bit vague as to the differences between iVMS-5200 and the deployment of Hik-Central and the reasons are valid, enough said. 

Avatar
Campbell Chang
Apr 19, 2017

5200 is still being deployed in other markets. While Hik-Central = 5200 = no recording in NA, Hik-Central doesn't exist in other markets. In ANZ for example, Hik-Central does not exist, and storage server licenses are still being sold. So to say that Hik-Central = 5200 is incorrect as it isn't a global thing. At least not yet.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 16, 2017

Let's not lose ourselves in semantics: Hikcentral is a VMS. Pricing is very attractive, just like many things Hik. WIll it be a s features-ladden as a Milestone Xprotect? I don't know , I haven't tried it.

Coming back to the Original question. the iVMS4200 can solve a few problems if one works at it. The Manual is not as clear as it should be but this software is capable. Very  much so, it is free and it works , no doubt. What it lacks is ergonomic and flexibility. I hope the Hikcentral address that.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Apr 18, 2017

Your writing was as always, slanted and boring in favor of "HICKVISON"

Yes I added the "C " since you always  spell with capital letters. It shows you are biased and not in a good way. Cost should not be leading reason to buy security as is your focus. Sell cheap, customer wants cheap. Usually the small customer does not know what they want except they know they need security. SO your focus is buy cheap and make better margins.

HOWEVER:

What has Hikvison really done better than any other company in the surveillance industry:

 Erode the price of surveillance products. How many times have we read in IPVM, Hikvision drops prices-10%-20%, 25%, 30% additional. We look at the magazines of distributors like ADI for example. "price slash 40%" on NVRs,  cameras.

Hikvision sells to the majority of SI's or OEMs to everyone, and they sell at lowest prices. Honeywell and LTS are examples.

So how much increase in revenue will an integrator need to offset the erosion in revenue due to Hikvision. What about profits? When he or she compares revenue from cameras last year vs, next year and year after, each will see or already does see the significance.

When cameras are $10 each, how many will you have to sell to maintain your revenue. Not a real question because we both know, you will be one of many that will lead with other types of  products and leave video surveillance security to Hikvision or continue to work for Hikvision , work for someone else, or quit working. Choices are A,B, C.D.

Last tidbit. I doubt if you know who is selling cameras to COSCO. How about  Hikvision through an OEM. Funny thing is you don't know if this is true or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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MC
Marty Calhoun
Apr 18, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Thank you for expressing your opinion, whoever you are behind "Undisclosed Manufacturer". 

Sorry to inform you but I would venture to say that while you were in diapers I was learning this business the hard way, by starting at the bottom and learning what every position takes to succeed. You have no clue what I sell, what price I sell it for, or the margin so whom the hell are you to make obviously jealous statements such as the above "fodder".

There is not enough time for me to enter all of the excellent things that HIKVISION has done for the Video Industry, the 100's of thousands of dealers that represent them or myself personally.

Your failure to see the video industry as it is and my hard driving approach has not always bode well with many of the "Undisclosed Manufacturers" that are suddenly realizing they are in a bit of a 'pinch' and find themselves playing catch-up to a HIKVISION train that has already left the station.

Good Luck Mr. Undisclosed..... 

 

 

 

U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 18, 2017
IPVMU Certified

...the 100's of thousands of dealers that represent them or myself personally.

How many 100's of thousands are we talking about here?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Apr 19, 2017

How many 100's of thousands are we talking about here?

Everyone who buys one on Amazon is effectively a dealer.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Apr 19, 2017
IPVMU Certified

... and find themselves playing catch-up to a HIKVISION train that has already left the station.

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JH
Jay Hobdy
Apr 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I think Geovision allows the first 32 Geovision cameras license free. But they must be Geovision cameras

Avatar
Faris AlZamel
Apr 15, 2017
Zamco Security Systems Co.

Yes, i can confirm this, if you buy GeoVision cameras you get their VMS 32 CH for free, although VMS PRO 64 CH is paid.

Any 3rd party cameras will be chargeable per channel.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Apr 16, 2017

The Avigilon HD video appliances come with licenses pre-loaded (Core for HD Video Appliance Series and Standard for Video Appliance Pro series), however should you want a version above what they come with you'd need to purchase the upgrade to the next version. It's typically licensed for the number of network ports the appliance has. Their larger NVRs however do not come with any licensing and it must be purchased separately.

U
Undisclosed #4
Apr 16, 2017

and

ACC ES HD Recorder comes with Ent Lic

 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Apr 16, 2017

All embedded DVR do not charge per channel.


Almost all of the closed system manufacturers(Like Dahua, Hikvision, Dynacolor...) has "open" NVR which support "ONVIF" as they say.
This kind of NVR will not charge per channel too.

But some software house will make the NVR too. (Milestone, Exacqvision...)
This kind of NVR always need licence but they will included basic channel license in each model (4ch, 16ch, 32ch). If you need more pay more.

You can easy to identify closed system manufacturers by whom is still selling "Embedded DVR" (Not PC-base DVR. Not analog card plug into NVR)

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Apr 16, 2017

Not entirely true.  Some NVRs do charge licenses for more channels and feature unlocks.  For example Panasonix WJ-HD300 NVRs require WJ-NVE30W licenses to add an additional 8 cameras to the recording capabilities.  This can be done twice to bring the total count up to 32.

The new Panasonic WJ-NX400 has a similar deal with license unlocks.

There are undoubtedly others that follow this same model.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Apr 19, 2017

I think your model number is incorrect. Wj-hd300 is an old dvr model. I think you may have meant wj-nv300 or something...? 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Apr 19, 2017

You are correct, it is the WJ-NV300.

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