Subscriber Discussion

What Are Best Practices For Automatic Door Openers And Access Control?

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Scott Bradford
May 23, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Hello everyone.  I've been beating my head on the wall on this one for a while.  I've got multiple doors that have access control on them and also automatic door openers.    In most cases I have a second wire going from the door opener back to my S2 blade and it's tied to a secondary output which is triggered on positive badge read.

My issue is that staff wants the automatic door opener to work when they go OUT the door. Ok, so, I've created an event that when someone triggers the REX, the door unlocks and then opens. 

There's 2 issues with this.  First, it creates a done of activity in my access feed (not a big deal, but it's annoying).

Second, and more importantly.  The doors in question are in hallways. So, if anyone walks down the hallway, there by triggering the REX, the door opens all by itself (which is pretty funny to watch people's reactions when it happens. Like there's a ghost). 

I was considering changing to an electrified handset, but we do have people in wheelchairs that would have problems with that.  My best idea is to move the REX further away from the door and then turn it backwards and aim it IN towards the door, so the angle is much more steep and people walking near it would be 'under' it's motion zone. 

 

So, anyone out there have experience with auto openers and going OUT and how did you handle it?

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Brian Rhodes
May 23, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Hello Scott:

Are you able to connect the REX sensor as an input directly onto the door opener?  If so, it might cut down on the 'activity noise' in your platform.

Also, what brand/model of REX is being used? 

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Scott Bradford
May 23, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I think its a DS 120.  I did consider that,  directly connecting the REX to the opener

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Jeff Kaproth
May 23, 2018

I suggest you look at a BEA device called a BR-3.  Its a programmable relay used in operators regularly.

If you install it at the door, have the inside button as the input to the BR-3, with the outputs being to the REX input, the lock power supply, and the opener, timed between them.  When the inside paddle is pressed, the rex triggers to shunt alarm, the lock energizes, and the opener fires.

 

(2)
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Sean Patton
May 23, 2018

A few questions:

  • Are you using the REX to shunt a door contact to avoid door forced open alarms?
  • Is this site a school or other facility you need the option to lock down operation of doors and don't want the REX triggering the door to open?
  • Can you switch the trigger to a button vs REX sensor?

As an integrator I used a Camden timing switch to control triggering the door unlock and then firing the ADA operator, and the whole process was broken by an Aux Relay on the door controller if the system was put in lockdown (most of our clients were schools and hospitality)

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Buddy Carmichael
May 23, 2018
AVS Design Concepts

I agree with another on here that you might consider using a simple push-button instead of a REX motion. The button can be located for easy ADA access and if you send signal into the system you'll only have legitimate REX entries in the log and not door forced open alarms. Then you don't have to mess with shunting the contact either.

(1)
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Scott Bradford
May 23, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I'm trying to migrate away from push buttons for the openers because we have handicapped staff with issues with them (can't reach them in a wheelchair).  The openers have physical buttons now for exit and I've been asked to do away with them.

Also, they are located in areas where people are frequently moving in and out with large carts, so it's difficult to reach around and hit the button

None of the doors in question are exterior for lock down.

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Sean Patton
May 24, 2018

Have you considered using a curtain motion detector vs a traditional REX PIR? I've used these for covering narrow openings and they seem to have a pretty narrow coverage area if you install in on the top of the frame: http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wired-Detectors/Clip-ch-4n

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 23, 2018

What about using two Rex’s? Configure one with a longer relay time, installed further from the door, the second rex is near the door with a shorter relay time.if you wire them in series a person egressing out will hit both rexes and the door will open but A person walking down the hall not egressing out will trip one rex but not unlock the door.

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U
Undisclosed #2
May 23, 2018

You say you've considered electrified handsets, so that implies you're using either panics or mags . If panics, install a REX switch in the bar and will to trigger the operator .

If mags, you could put a dummy bar with a REX in it just to trigger the opener. 

I would 100% advise against using a motion REX to fire the operator, both for issues of maintenance/longevity and security. 

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 23, 2018

With a rex switch in the bar, wouldnt that just be a big push button at that point? 

U
Undisclosed #2
May 23, 2018

The reason given for not using a push button to actuate is that there are people in wheelchairs. While yes it is technically a button, it's a BIG button and one that people in wheelchairs are accustomed to using.

 

Another option would be to use a full-length button like the Ingress'r from Wikk (https://www.wikk.com/sw_spec.html). It has high and low buttons that can be pressed with either hand or foot much more easily from a wheelchair than a standard button.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 23, 2018

Those full length buttons or pedestal look pretty nice. Ive only used pedestals with buttons but not the full length ones. Nice source.

U
Undisclosed #2
May 23, 2018

We have used a ton of the Wikk products and highly recommend them. They are great to work with, and will build virtually anything to your specification without a lot of "added" cost depending on what you're looking for. 

Architects love them because they have a virtually unlimited list of shape and finish options, and the products themselves are great. The "Ingress'r" style buttons are definitely unique -- not sure if I've seen them elsewhere.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 23, 2018

https://ipvm.com/reports/hikvision-classroom#posts-anchor

If only you had hikvision camera like they were using in those Chinese class rooms, it would determine if you were intending to egress out or not. Lol

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Daniel S-T
May 24, 2018

I always kept it pretty simple. Either a couple of relays, or this thing from Camden.

But in this case we never had anything to do with the automatic door operator installation. It's installed by others, with buttons, and we interface with it. So if you no longer have the buttons, it may not work. But I thought you had to have the buttons, for the actual handicapped. Here we need one at 36" or so, and one at foot height.

(1)
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Scott Bradford
May 25, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Thanks for the input everyone, I'm liking the ideas. 

I'm really gun shy on stacking on a bunch of relays. We have had 3 RB7's burn out trying to trigger the auto openers and it's not gone over well.

There are 2 main doors in question.

One is a mag lock. Exterior, all glass door. It does have a push bar on it, but no mullion. So, perhaps that one can be replaced with a REX in the bar. So, someone would just have to push on the  bar a little bit and the door would open.

 

The second door (in the narrow hallway) is a strike. It's a solid wood door. The auto opener was installed long before the access control was. It used to be operated with a large button on either side.  The button on the 'in' side is now effectively disabled, since when you scan your badge it opens by itself.  The 'out' button is having problems because sometimes the strike unlocks and sometimes it sticks when people hit the exit button.

 

Perhaps the best overall answer on that one is to replace it with an electrified handset with rex inside, or also a crash bar, so when you begin to push on it, it will just open. That way we'll not have to deal with the latch sticking, since a one inch push of the crash bar will open the latch, and then the motor take it the rest of the way.  Then, I'll remove the button for the auto opener for the 'out' so people don't get confused

 

U
Undisclosed #2
May 25, 2018

Good stuff.

A few quick points --

First, regarding the strike sticking sometimes when the door is open, double check that you have a delay programmed in somehow between when the button is pressed and when the operator actually fires. To me this sounds like the operator is firing immediately, which is "loading" the strike and preventing it from releasing. A delay will allow the strike to actually release before the operator actually begins to open the door. 1/2 second or 1 second delay should be adequate.

Second, it sounds like you agree that the rec switch inside a crash bar could be a better solution. Hopefully that works out. The only thing I would suggest is to leave the button and just add signage for a period of time that explains the new functionality. There should theoretically be no harm to leaving the button, and it would just give everyone an option so that they can do what is best for them. Some people may prefer the button, and some people may prefer the bar.

Good luck!

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Scott Bradford
May 25, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Here's a photo of the inside of the door and a sketch of how the hallway works. You can see the REX in front of the Exit sign.  The cheap way to fix it might be to move the REX further away from the door and then turn it back inwards towards the door so people walking past are less likely to trigger it. If you look at the drawing, this door is at the corner of an L shaped hallway

 

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Bryan Buenaventura
May 26, 2018
www.dynamic-certified.org

Take heed: Using the REX to unlock a door opens up a huge vulnerability for your client, as they'd be able to penetrate through that door in just a couple seconds...

TM
Ty Mullen
Aug 25, 2018
COR Security, Inc.

I like using a CX-12 to bring together the access control and auto operator hardware. It will make it so the outside button/sensor is only active after access control is triggered. Will provide a delay between unlock and door open. Allow inside button/sensor to both unlock and open the door. https://www.camdencontrols.com/products/CX_12_Switching_Network

However I would make sure you do a lot of research before you move to a sensor to open the door. Because now you changed in from a knowing act to a passive which changed the requirements from a low energy opening to a high energy opening. Which means you need safety sensors and safety rails. And a lot of other regulations that come into play.  

ea
eric austin
Aug 28, 2018

When there is access control integration, we swear by the Camden CX-33 Advanced Logic Relay.

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