I may take you up on the food... we will be in Lucerne, Switzerland for classical piano festival in November and then we will actually be going down to Genova for a few days - we should meet up for some Spaghetti al Pesto!
So, for your described markets, they would probably be most interested in POS integration, dwell time, people counting, and traffic flow patterns. VideoIQ will probably not give them a whole lot of benefit, unless they have high- secure areas where they need to know if someone enters right away. I would take a serious look at 3xLogic and 3VR. I really don't think Avigilon is where you should be going for this. Avigilon cameras? Sure. But otherwise you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
Hi Alireza, very nice to meet you.
Actually the problem in using the 16-29MP cameras is the, reasonably, low frame rate that does not allow of course the algorithms of modelling to sample efficiently the environment dynamics. 1-3 frames per seconds are definitely not enought unfortunately to efficiently model a generic environment, moreover if outdoor with complex dynamics.
So, for example, by VTrack you can process a 16-29MP camera by cropping many virtual cameras in order to be able to process all in parallel with enough processors (umbelievable to thing to process a whole 16MP image real time in a single core); but anyway you will have from the source 2-3 frames per second. We would need at least 8-10, maybe 7 if the environment is not that much dynamic. It's exactely the same issue you have with the sampling theorem for an analogue signal: you need to sample the signal at least at the double of the bandwidth not to lose information. Here is of course more "empirical" to set the "bandwidth" of an environment dynamics; but the experience says clearly 8-10 fps are necessary for a good modeling with enough information.
You can ask for a second streaming of course, lower resoluted but faster: but you may lose then the advantage of the higer resolution.
In a project that we are right now deploying in Singapore (Marina Bay Sands), our Partner is using only 2 8MP Avigilon's camera, cropping 96 virtual cameras for each and applying the Intrusion function for each of them. But 8MP camera can reach higher frame rate and correctly feasible.
Similar project approach we have in Italy, where each 2MP cameras (in this case we even acquire directly) is cropped 3 times for 3 specific spots where higher resolution is needed.
At disposal for further information,
Thank you Joshua (how are you by the way?), you gained a lifetime bonus of good Genovese Spaghetti al Pesto!...;))
I have dealt with Simone and technoaware in the past and they were very responsive. We did testing utilizing Avigilon JPEG2000 cameras and technoaware analytics and it worked well. Unfortunanetly the projects for which we were analyzing the solution fell through so we do not have it in a permanent installation. That being said our evaluation was free and Simone was extremely helpful. That reminds me I need to get back with technoaware soon again!
IPVMU Certified | 10/09/13 10:34am
Do you have any solution for 16 or 29MP Cameras of Avigilon for Analytics?
Have you done any projects based on these types of cameras?
What type of Analytics has been tested with these multi Megapixel cameras?
TechnoAware VTrack (Simone de Titta from TechnoAwar writing here..) has been the first Analytics integrated with Avigilon, 2 years ago by now.. We have a very strict "practical" commercial relationship with Avigilon, as we have with Milestone or Axis as well.. We do sell with Avigilon sharing our dirstribution channels in 32 Countries in the world at today; we have already projects on field in Italy (of course), Sweden, Spain, Iran, Singapore, Lithuania, Jordan, South Africa, ...........
We do definitely sell software modules, no futher special box/hw/sensor is needed: we just give to you the hw specifications and it's up to you then.. We can acquire directly the flows from Avigilon's cameras (by rtp/rtsp/onvif) up to 5MP and by Gateway for upper MP cameras. Or, we can acquire anyway through their SDK module (if you use for example not Avigilon cameras, compatible with ACC but not directly with VTrack) and/or send the alerts to their new POS module.
We have specific functions for retail fields and I am at your complete disposal for free demos and for supporting you to test them on field.
At your complete disposal for any further contact/information.
Thank you, with my best regards
Simone de Titta
It's not a big secret that I am a big proponent for 3vr. The only downside to 3VR (aside from their negative publicity lately) is their lack of mapping (supposedly coming soon). They also need to work on their mac compatibility-they are not alone in that. VideoIQ is certainly the go-to for human presence analytic, but for that to be useful, you need to take a look at what kind of alerting you can set up. Is it emailing a link to the video, is it just text, is it sending an entire clip, or is it sending a JPEG. There's pro's and con's to each type of alerting, and I would argue a JPEG is the efficient, best bandwidth, and most convenient of all of them for a client. Any time that you integrate two seperate manufacturers products (in this case- avigilon and say, license plate recognition) you have more chances for failure and service difficulties. Also, there's never 100% functionality of either from one platform to the other. Until these analytic products and Nvr integration set ups get more prevalent, and thusly tested, you are going to be a guinea pig to some degree. So, I look to platforms that have analytics built-in. 3VR, Genetec, Milestone, Lenel, OnSSI, 3xLogic are my primary. However, I see Honeywell maintaining their premium priced systems being not exceptional, but good. I foresee Bosch coming back on the NVR side-they already have with their cameras- and their analytics using high CPU, but reliable. Axis may also be venturing down this road sooner than later, and that could change the game if the NVR's integrate their full codec. Bottom line, if you are looking to market a mission critical analytic and/or an analytic-heavy platform, Avigilon is probably not the platform you should be pushing. Call an audible and look into one of the others
3VR is an NVR/VMS. Avigilon is an NVR/VMS. I doubt there's any way to integrate them. 3VR is more of an alternative that a compliment. I mention it because it's an example of a VMS with deeply integrated analytics for retail (people counting, facial recognition, gender/age detection, etc.).
3VR integrates with Avigilon? How does it integrage does someone have to jump around to view info?
So Avigilon does not have many analytic options (according to their own list) and the ones they do are not going to be simple/cheap to market for small retail establishments or restaurants. For example, even if/once the VideoIQ Rialto is supported by Avigilon, you need to buy that box in addition to all your other equipment (and that box is not cheap).
Specifically for small retail or restaurants, what are you looking at? People counting?
Compare to 3VR. While they are not in great shape, that's a solution built for analytics in retail.
I would want to use it with Avigilons cameras and NVR.
To be honest, I am marketing some Avigilon cameras to some customers, and I want to know what there is out there in teh analytics field that I should mention to them that they would be interested in.
My typical installation is a small retail establishment or a resteraunt. I also have one or two food processor scenerios.
Also, I would be interested in tying in analtyics to cheaper manufactueres like vivotek, or acti and use them either with Aviglons NVR or eventually milestone.
What do you specifically want to do? What type of analytics do you want to run? "Retail and industrial" is very broad.
Also, do you want to use Avigilon's own cameras with third party analytics? or do you want to use VideoIQ's cameras/analytics? Rialto is for using non VideoIQ cameras.
Without the Rialto, does VideoIQ play nice with Avigilon?
What aspects of their analytics would be good for the standard retail and indutrial application?
Here's Avigilon's 3rd party integration list. Of that, here are the analytic options:
- TechnoAware VTrack
VideoIQ is not listed on that section but is on the camera compatibility list. Also, VideoIQ says their analytic events from their cameras are integrated with Avigilon. The Rialto, which is their encoder for third party IP cameras like Avigilon's, is said to be in the works for Avigilon integration.
VideoIQ, by far, is the safest, most mainstream choice.
That said, what are you looking for? Ipsotek's analytics are interesting but niche, higher end applications.