What 4K Cameras Should We Include In A Shootout?

We are planning a 4K shootout this summer. Right now we're planning to include new models, such as:

Are there other new models which we should include? We have already done testing of Avigilon H4Bosch, Hanwha, and Panasonic and will be retesting for comparison, but want to make sure we aren't missing newer releases.

Update: Please explain why. Do not simply put model numbers.

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I’d like to see you add the AXIS P1448-LE too for comparison. 

Unless you’re keeping it to domes. 

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Sony VM772R

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Dahua IPC-HFW81230E-ZE and  IPC-HDBW81230E-ZE

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I'd be interested in seeing Univew's IPV4K212M included in a shootout.  Very attractive price-point for the feature set.

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As a Uniview distributor I would like to know what camera the IPV4K212M is ?

Since Uniview has been mentioned I would like to see the IPC3638SR3-DPZ motorised eyeball dome

IPC3638SR3-DPZ

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My apologies.  Uniview tec IPV4K212M is what I am requesting to include.

IPV4K212M

 

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Uniview Tec is a small US relabaler / redistributor. We may test Uniview / UNV itself but not small relabalers. Related: Uniview Setting Up A US Sales Presence? (Uniview Technology / Uniview Tec)

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for reference that is the IPC3238SR3-DVPZ

 

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I would be grateful for one of Hikvision's Value Plus series to be included in the test, especially alongside their Smart Pro series model. Something like the DS-2CD2185FWD-I.

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Update: Reason why?

It's probably no secret to industry professionals that 4K sensor A is not necessarily equal to 4K sensor B and so on, even within the same manufacturer's lineup. Frankly I was surprised at the quality difference when I got to compare a $1,000 2.1MP Darkfighter versus a $100 2.1MP Value series bullet.

Camera costs have dropped significantly and become far more mainstream for small businesses and home users, however my experience in the home market is that it is entirely cost driven. Furthermore, budget model cameras are improving significantly and offering many of the same picture quality benefits of higher end models at the expense of features most small business or home consumers wouldn't need, mostly advanced analytics.

I would appreciate seeing the Value series 4K camera from Hikvision compared against its Smart Pro brother to see how the picture quality differs so as to be able to recommend its use (or not) where a customer wants high resolution but at an affordable price.

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Frankly I was surprised at the quality difference when I got to compare a $1,000 2.1MP Darkfighter versus a $100 2.1MP Value series bullet.

Why? Was the cheap one more than 10x worse?

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Why? Was the cheap one more than 10x worse?

No, but it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison because the PTZ obviously had far more features and capabilities than the basic bullet. What I meant was that a higher end camera with the same resolution had a sensor that performed better than the low end model, which I had not expected. I had assumed 2.1MP = 2.1MP = 2.1MP but things like sharpness of image in particular were notably better on the higher end model.

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Axis 4k PTZ Q6128-E

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Is there a reason why you are testing a model of Hikvision that isn’t available to the US market? I understand that your audience isn’t only NA, but it predominantly is. 

EDIT: Just looked at the new (to me) Hikvision catalog and saw this is an upcoming release in the US. Bravo

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Hi Ethan, Are you also going to test HD-SDI/EX-SDI cameras?

King regards, Joe

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No plans for SDI right now. We'd be more likely to test 4K CVI or TVI but even that would be secondary since IP is significantly bigger overall for camera deployments.

Joseph, question - Are you using SDI now? If so, what has your experience been and where / why do you use it vs IP? We'd be interested to hear.

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Hi John, thank you for asking the question about SDI. About 98% of our sales are EX-SDI/HD-SDI, and we promote and believe that SDI is the True and superior CCTV technology. For reference click on the link for a comparison between SDI & Analogue HD (you probably have seen this). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8u80gfum60

Secondly, SDI is a true CCTV standard that is standardised by The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE). As compared to Analogue CCTV (HD-TVI, HD-CVI, AHD) and IP which was of no standard, that is why they invented ONVIF after the fact.

We can offer our clients a quality alternative compared to the common market brands like HIK & Dahua and other AHD/IP resellers. We see this as plus advantages in several ways. 1) we are not using the same brand s other suppliers and having to compete for a dollar less. 2) Some people do get turned off by “Made in PRC”. 3) Our products are not prone to hacking. 4) SDI is of a global CCTV standard. 5) Niche market. 6) We find that people prefer products that are Made in Korea or Japan. And others.

This summarises our stance for promoting SDI. Please reply if we can be of assistance in any way.

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Joseph, Your (1) - (6) are reasonable points, though there are plenty of non-Chinese products on the IP side.

The main issues we see are:

(1) Limited manufacturers offering it. There are just very few companies that offer it which means that, even if the technology was great, most integrators are not going to use it since it is not available in their preferred line.

(2) Limited form factors / types. Related to above, IP has a vast number of form factors and types. SDI has few.

(3) In what ways, technologically, is it better?

Final question, Joseph, if we tested SDI, who's SDI products should we test? How is the 'market leader' in SDI?

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How about a complimentary post that lists the camera companies that do not have a 4K offering.... is there any?

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Hi Undisclosed #7, Yes you are correct, SDI is available in HD 1080p, UHD 4k & 4M ( 4, 8 & 12 Megapixel resolutions). I don't know of any specific manufacturers that don't have UHD in SDI. I hope I answered your question?

Regards, Joe.

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Yes you are correct, SDI is available in HD 1080p, UHD 4k & 4M ( 4, 8 & 12 Megapixel resolutions). I don't know of any specific manufacturers that don't have UHD in SDI. 

Then again there’s always the off chance that U7 isn’t even talking about SDI :)

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How about the Hanwha-Techwin PNV-9080R and the Panasonic WV-SFV781L

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IFS08D2ICWTT

Illustra Flex 8MP mini-dome, 3.4-9mm, indoor, vandal, clear, white, TDN, TWDR

IFS08D2OCWIT

Illustra Flex 8MP mini-dome, 3.4-9mm, outdoor, vandal, clear, white, TDN w/IR, TWDR

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Axis P1368-E

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I would like to see the Panasonic WV-SFV781L. I have installed around 10 of these and really like the picture quality.

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AXIS Q3709-PVE

It's a 180 degree panorama camera with three preconfigured 4K sensors. Would like to know if the resulting picture is seamless.

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Hi Rainald, we actually have already tested the Q3709-PVE, see here.

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The Hikvision DS-2CD5585G0-IZHS. Thank you.

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These are reasonably priced/spec'd for the 4k market and it would be interesting to see them put up against a variety of other vendors (axis, Hik)

Vitek 8MP Cameras

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It still happening? 

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We did the fixed focal version - see 8MP / 4K Fixed Lens Camera Shootout - Dahua, Hikvision, TVT, Uniview. There was not enough varifocal / 'premium' new ones at the end of last year to justify doing so but we do plan one for this year.

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What about the: Hikvision DS-2CD5585G0-IZHS?

 

You said before that you have it on your desk.

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I believe Ethan has it but he / team has hundreds of camera models (e.g., we just ordered 2 new Hikvision models this week). Right now, we are doing a covert camera shootout including Axis, Hikvision, others as well as a new test of Hikvision analytics including 5 and 7 series cameras.

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I look forward to seeing a new shootout, hopefully with more cameras and more camera styles.  I'm hoping to up the performance of the 1/2.5" Hikvision DS-2CD2785FWD-IZS models I have as I upgrade my other older cameras.

I'm also curious if anyone here has compiled a chart/table of actual low light performance vs. claimed low light performance such that maybe relative performance could be approximated within and between brands.  (From the get go I've assumed absolute performance was nowhere near what is claimed. 1/3s shutter times are useless unless your perp stands still for a while to have his portrait taken.)  Among the 5 or so Hik models I have, it at least appears that the color lux numbers serve as a ranking between them if nothing else.

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compiled a chart/table of actual low light performance vs. claimed low light performance such that maybe relative performance could be approximated within and between brands.

We did this years ago and found it all over the place, i.e., it was hard to see rhyme or reason across brands. It was clear they were using their own varying metrics to choose minimum illumination.

We have not done so recently since it's pretty clear that there is no attempt among them for verification and normalization (also integrated IR makes min illumination specs less meaningful since they all are technically 0 with IR 'on').

Among the 5 or so Hik models I have, it at least appears that the color lux numbers serve as a ranking between them if nothing else.

Yes, we found the same pattern. Within manufacturers, lux ratings tend to be a reliable indicator of which models within their lines, the manufacturer believes are better.

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Within manufacturers, lux ratings tend to be a reliable indicator of which models within their lines, the manufacturer believes are better.

IPVM assigned manufacturer fudge factor to normalize across brands?

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I would concur with the fudge factor idea.  I have a Hikvision DS-2DE4A404IW-DE that claims 0.002 lux color (I have yet to mount the thing permanently.  I'd love to see a test of its low light and its "smart tracking", since in my tests its IQ seems to vary quite a bit.), and I just ordered another 4 MP model (non PT dome with zoom) that also claims 0.002 lux color.  The one I have already certainly blows away an older one that claimed 0.014, but how does it fare against other brands?

To my eye, my tests with my 4K models show that 1/200 is the shutter speed needed to eliminate almost all blur from normal unhurried walking pace.  So the question becomes, how close to that can I get at night?

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Bosch has a new dome coming out which has a 8mp/4k option, forget the series nomenclature, but it has the wifi install PTZ.

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How about Bosch's new 4K UHD camera, the "FLEXIDOME IP starlight 8000i"?  It looks awesome. 

Albeit dome (NDE-8504-R) versus box (NBN-80122), a comparison of Bosch's current gen hi-res flagship and their older (CPP6) 4K camera weighed against competing products would be interesting. 

Since Bosch's releases are far, few, and in-between competitors, seeing Bosch peek out of their cave every abiogenesis with anything is charming (i.e. Hey, Bosch!  I see you over there! With your 4K goodness... with all those megapixels, and dual SD slots.  Looking good, Hanw--)

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How about Bosch's new 4K UHD camera, the "FLEXIDOME IP starlight 8000i"? It looks awesome.

We just checked with Bosch. It's roughly a month or two away from wide availability. We will buy one when it is and test it.

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