Subscriber Discussion

We Have Created A Society That Does Not See The Value Of Skilled Manual Labor

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Mark Jones
Aug 08, 2018

Yes, the shortages do impact our industry.  Certainly they do.  We all hire from the same pool.  But some of the remarks I have seen here are not related to the booming economy.  Today's younger workforce shortages really is related to some degree to the worker's expectations.  This is going to sound like a rant, and I apologize for that, but there is truth in the belief that younger workers have vastly different expectations and we as owners and managers are going to have to deal with it.  

I will give you a quick example that should scare the hell out of you.  Here in NC, we have roughly 2500 licensed electricians total, regardless of classification.  Of that 2500, less than 50 are under the age of 40 and the average age is 57.  That is a staggering number.  Somewhere, we have failed our youth.  We have created a society that does not see the value of skilled manual labor.  From electricians to carpenters to farmers to barbers, we look down on skilled labor and that is just wrong-headed.  The various Licensing boards here see the shortages and the problems we are all going to have because of them, but they are plain dumbfounded about what to do.  

I have an electrical contractor friend that I partner with on larger jobs.  They typically provide skilled electrical rough-in for very large projects.  They have for years.  They are no longer able to meet all of our demands in large part because today's skilled labor force is well compensated and they don't have the same view of overtime that the workforce once did (which is probably two different things).  Yesterday's workers needed overtime.  They had bills and college to plan for.  Today's workers want to spend more time with their families and expect college to be free.  You can't give them overtime.  Some of that is due in part to the booming economy, but certainly not all of it.  

I could go on for hours about this issue.  I have spent the better part of a year talking directly to today's youth about a great many things and ladies and gentlemen, I am here to tell you their expectations for their futures do not match ours and they cannot be convinced otherwise.  For better and worse, it will be a different world very soon. 

Would creating classes solve the problem?  I don't think so.  Creating classes for people who won't attend is a waste of precious resources. 

Very quickly, today's new workforce wants to be compensated well, have a seat at the table and have their voices heard.  They understand they have to be a little patient, but that patience has a limit.  At the same time, they expect their employers to help foot the cost of education and their allegiances are thin.  Statistics clearly indicate today's youth are beginning to opt out of traditional post-graduate careers due in large part to the cost of education, but at the same time, most don't see the value. 

Market forces will eventually help to fix some of the labor shortages and Companies will be left to fix the rest, but in the meantime, we are going to be left with a lot of very unhappy, transient workers. 

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Are 'Construction Worker Shortages' Impacting Integrators Too?

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John Honovich
Aug 08, 2018
IPVM

Mark, great! I created a new post to highlight this.

I do think as more people realize the wastefulness of college (not for all but for many) that there will be a greater shift to skilled manual labor.

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Mark Jones
Aug 08, 2018

That "shift" is part of the market forces I was referring to John.  It will in part take care of itself, but not totally.  WE, if we have any sense of social responsibility, will be tasked with repairing the bulk of it.  Those who read this board, if you chose not to be a part of the solution, you will be left in the dust.  You will continue to draw from the bottom of the labor pool.  If you are okay with that, well, then you are all set.  But remember, you are competing with all of the other employers in every other trade, everywhere, not just me.  You are going to have to sell your company to your employees and your customers. 

And while I do understand John's point that a formal college environment is not for everyone, education is never a waste.   Contrary to current sentiments, Community Colleges and trade schools play a vital role in our education system.  They just need to be overhauled.  

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John Honovich
Aug 08, 2018
IPVM

education is never a waste. Contrary to current sentiments, Community Colleges and trade schools play a vital role in our education system.

I do think 4-year schools can be a waste for many people, especially given the cost now. I tried looking for specific stats on people with degrees but in jobs that do not need degrees but could not find any immediately. It did remind me of this video:

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Nov 30, 2018

John, check out this college program I’m working with - Palm Beach State College Security Systems Technician . If you want to know more let’s connect.

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 30, 2018
Chesapeake & Midlantic

This is cool! 

I'd love to know how you put your curriculum together. If you'd like to reach out, I'm easy to find on LinkedIn. 

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Scott Lindley
Aug 08, 2018
Farpointe Data, Inc.

Hi Mark-

Great post!  This is a real issue here in Northern California.  Many young people target professional careers in software, think Google and Facebook, and eschew future options that may require a skilled manual labor component.

However there's also a notable exception that's worth pointing out.  Earlier this summer Northern California's Tesla underwent a significant lay-off.  Elon Musk announced the company would reduce its work force by nearly 10%, with the majority coming from white-collar management.  Further, it's rumored Tesla then reinvested a sizeable portion of these savings back into the company's production associates.

I find it somewhat ironic - and optimistic - that a past software entrepreneur is now investing big in skilled manual labor.

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Mark Jones
Aug 08, 2018

No doubt, they see the same future we do.  As I said, we will all have to deal with it.  This is the Musk way.  Thanks,

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Undisclosed #1
Aug 08, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Today's workers want to spend more time with their families and expect college to be free. You can't give them overtime.

Mark Jones: No offense, but I should tell you that the only people I’m hiring now are those willing to work hard and “Go for the Green!”, understood?

Millennial: Right on, Marcus! I’m ready to “Go Green!”

 

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Undisclosed Integrator #2
Aug 08, 2018

While I completely agree we have over promoted the value of a college education over a trade, there isn’t a prospect of “quick money” for tradesmen.  It takes time and to really do well you have to take the risk and open your own shop. 

I believe the age of retirement swelled for union labor as well, so the openings for the young there are limited.   I wonder how their membership is doing.  It seems they spend more money on politics than recruiting. 

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Clint Hays
Aug 08, 2018

My experiences of searching for and hiring, green or young, techs are full of challenges. People with no comparable skills (networking/electrical/AV/mechanics) would want to walk in and make a comparable salary to a skilled experienced tech because that's what they felt they deserved. They wouldn't want to work the hours needed during a busy season and often would not follow through on the details. This lead to a situation of firing them and not having a pool of options to replenish from, and I know that is a situation for every integrations partner I have.

 

We aren't encouraging people to pick up trades vs useless college degrees. Skilled tech's should make a great living with salary,bonuses, and benefits to match their value but a lot of integration companies don't want to pay more than $30 an hour for a tech. This leads to our internal cannibalism of techs or sales employees. It needs to be changed, but I don't think unions help with it.

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Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 08, 2018

Skilled tech's should make a great living with salary,bonuses, and benefits to match their value but a lot of integration companies don't want to pay more than $30 an hour for a tech.

This is key.  I work for a very large end user I fully manage their Genetec platform from designing system, programming sites, helping integration companies with configuring devices etc.  I had a few offers from various integrators in various locations to join their team and help grow their company.  I was interested I like working with my hands, driving, interacting with customers, etc. heck my favorite job was working in a tire warehouse.  Sadly the pay they offer was just about 3/4 of what I make excluding pension, 401k matching, and included overtime.  As a married man with 2 kids wasn't worth it just to be able to get up off my butt.  

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John Honovich
Aug 13, 2018
IPVM
SD
Shannon Davis
Aug 13, 2018
IPVMU Certified

We are in the same situation here in the midwest. We have some manufacturing companies in the area that pay really well and great benefits if you have some electronics training. Let's say we can match the pay and benefits they still would most likely not come to work in this industry. They then have a choice. Work in a controlled environment or work outside, inside, attics, crawl spaces, not some of the best conditions. I would venture to say 90% would choose working for the manufacturing company. Sure our industry has some positions that are at a desk or at the customers site programming but those are far outnumbered by the installation side of the business. It is really hard to compete with that. I also agree the value of a college education is only relevant if your degree is specialized. Otherwise why waste the money. We most certainly need to start promoting trade schools as a great way to prepare for a career. We have also been promoting IT training and careers for a long time as well. Even more so I think than four year degrees. IT training has traditionally been really expensive but now you can get the training you need with online videos to learn and prepare for any IT certification testing. If we put an ad out for say a service technician and put much at all about IT skills needed then we get tons of resumes and when they learn this really isn't a full time IT position and you actually have to lug a ladder and tools around and you aren't at a desk hardly ever then typically they withdraw from consideration immediately. If you do happen to hire someone with a strong IT skill set oftentimes after a few months they don't like it and leave. Sure more and more of what we do is IT related but not like a traditional IT job.

 

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Undisclosed #5
Nov 30, 2018

I hear what you are saying but I fear it's the opposite. Younger people have likely analyzed the value more than the older generation ever did. They just don't value them as highly when compared to others. 30+ years ago people took a job and retired there. My mom retired in the food services industry, with the same company, despite making next to nothing.

Younger people, for example, are well aware that with a little IT knowledge you can make $80k in DC as a Network Engineer rather than $50-60k as a Security Technician. These labor markets aren't good careers when you compare them.

In the time it takes you to get your Journeymans', you could have completed 20 Udemy courses, picked up programming, and started a career in IT making far more than you would without ever having to work outside in the elements. If you want the money, stay OUT of those fields. Younger people want the money and I don't think it's because they don't know the value or because they look down on them. I think it's more likely they have realized these fields simply aren't as valuable as they may have been. Sure they are honorable etc, but we work to live, not the other way around.

Can't blame them, you don't make money by staying with a company. You make 15-30% jumps in pay when you switch jobs compared to the what,,, 3% raise a year if you are lucky. Saying that as a business owner, so. *shruggie*

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