Subscriber Discussion

Taking Over VMS System Managed By Someone Else?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Dec 07, 2017

How do you go about taking over a system managed by someone else?

 

First customer has a mix of equipment, and we know where everything is, as the IDF's are easily visible in the plant. But we do not know any passwords to the managed switches, VMS or VPN. They now want to add some more equipment which requires working with some of these switches, VMS, etc

 

Second client is worse. 100~ cameras analog/IP with switches, encoders and power supplies throughout the building, and nobody knows where anything is. One person said there are switches in the drop ceilings....  On this one, we are thinking of telling the client it is a complete takeover and we will try to locate all the switches, power supplies, and document everything and hand it over to them. This would be done at an hourly rate. This could take a week or more. Then we can start adding cameras/doing repairs.

 

Any suggestions on how to handle this with a client and how to address the cost of all this work just to locate everything?

JH
John Honovich
Dec 07, 2017
IPVM

But we do not know any passwords to the managed switches, VMS or VPN.

Does that imply that the end user does not know them? Does the previous integrator know them? If so, has the end user asked the integrator for them? I'd go through those steps first before considering what to do on site to recover the passwords.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Dec 07, 2017

Of course, that was our first question and we just got a blank look. The first customer, we have not asked IT but we know the camera system is a segregated system and does not touch the corporate network.  The second customer I asked the IT director and he pretty much said I have no idea, this does not touch the corporate network and walked out.

 

In both cases, we are working with Loss Prevention/Security.

 

So in both cases, we are assuming we have no help, no passwords, and we are on our own.

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MM
Michael Miller
Dec 07, 2017

We have taken over a number of projects like this.  I am not surprised anymore when I ask if they know how many cameras they have and the response is "I don't know how many cameras I have".  I would start by asking them if there VMS has a way to generate a report to show many cameras are connected to the system. Network scanning tools will be your best friend to see what is on the network.  Hopefully, they know what subnet the cameras are on and the network is not too complicated or this will make your life more challenging. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Dec 08, 2017

LOL

During my first meeting.

Me: So how many cameras do you have?

Security: A lot, maybe 30 or so.

Me: OK, lets look at the security room and see what you have

We go down and I walk into 4-5 monitors full of cameras. I look on the client and see NVR 1, and quickly count 50+ cameras, then go NVR2 and count 50+ cameras. I see a 42u rack, see two servers, a POE switch, maybe some PTZ controllers, and think "Man you guys have no idea what's going on"

 

Anyway, my question was more of a business/sales question. Do you do this flat rate? Do you charge hourly? This is a major hotel with parking garage, so it could take a week or more to track everything down.

 

 

DF
David Fogle, CSEIP
Dec 08, 2017

Digging in to explore and locate will be a daunting task at best. We acquired a company and along with it several mega churches with zero documentation of the access control, IP Video, and IDS solutions deployed throughout 12+ locations. A virtual nightmare to service under even the best conditions.

I deployed my service people out with System Surveyor (www.system surveyor.com) with copies of their floorplans setup for each system and they went about collecting all of the device locations and details and we now have a much better command of their locations and service visits are greatly reduced to simply fixing the problem not finding it.

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MM
Michael Miller
Dec 08, 2017

In my experience documentation is not important to most customers until there is a problem and they need the info.  We have not charged to specialty document a customers system but we do add extra time to in the quote to account for some documentation then when we have a service call we would add/update for the device/s on that call.  So, in the long run, they are paying for us to document the system but over time. 

One of the changes we have with our techs is getting them to document the system when they are onsite with the customer and not waiting for them to come back to the shop.  This way it is easier to bill the customer for the time when they do it onsite so we don't have to explain to the customer why they tech was only on site for 1 hour but they got billed for 4 hours. 

With our new documentation solution, we can then give the customer real-time access to there data.  Once they see how well the system is documented the see the value in paying us to do this for them.   We are happy now that are techs are spending more time installing/troubleshooting and less time looking for info. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Dec 08, 2017

On a side note, how do you like system surveyor? I tried it a couple years ago and the major flaw was it did not work in a browser/PC. Seems like that feature has been added.

 

This could be a big time saver, and I am looking for a way to reduce estimate times.

(1)
Avatar
Daniel S-T
Dec 09, 2017

How I see it, really only two options. Well maybe three. They can try and talk to their previous installer, see if they will hand over any paperwork they may or may not have. 

Offer a flat hourly rate with a estimated amount of time. Or just throw a number out there, two weeks of labour sort of stuff. It sucks, and the potential customers probably think it's just an easy switch over. Do your best to explain why it would take so long, but you may find some people just go back to their old installer, unless they no longer exist.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Dec 08, 2017

I can't imagine switches in the drop ceiling... maybe power supplies?  I had a similar headache.  I have found that its essential to look inside the mechanical/electrical closets, as well as the IT closets.  I mean literally opened each one and had a look inside.  I did figure it out and now they are my biggest client.

U
Undisclosed #4
Dec 08, 2017

While looking  for a rack, I found these a few months ago.

Panduit PanZone

Panduit PanZone

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RS
Robert Shih
Dec 08, 2017
Independent

I've seen those online before and as a geek with OCD, I have to say those are veritably sexyAF.

Avatar
Daniel S-T
Dec 09, 2017

We have switches in the ceiling at our sites. Not documented, but the old timers know where they are.

You just never know with some people.

U
Undisclosed #3
Dec 08, 2017

I agree with John here - system PWs should be objective #1, imo.

Your bargaining position is zero without them if the old integrator decides to posture.

best case:  have the customer get them on the down low (i.e. before the incumbent integrator sniffs out the imminent loss of this customer).

next best case: engage with incumbent integrator (if they don't posture, they may offer up not only the system PWs, but also the headaches they've had with this customer in the past.  good info for you if it exists - whether you believe what they say or not.

last best case:  if the incumbent integrator postures, I would immediately engage the manufacturer of this customers stuff (and any MRs they might have in that area) and plead for assistance.

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