A Reasonably Priced Rock Solid VMS Out There That Rarely Has Issues And Support Is Amazing?

Avigilon- Looked at. Considering, but they don't have the motion detection recording in it for 3rd party cameras...the MD has to be done at the cameras. Its almost like it's crossing the line at being too proprietary. Few years ago, I was told by a friend of mine that they bypassed him and sold directly to a big client of his. Avigilon never really appealed to me just because of the patent lawsuit nonsense. Only reason Ive looked at them as of recent is with the Motorola take over.

Milestone- Looking at, working with a demo.

Exacq-Looked at years ago, did not like feature set- maybe its changed?

Genetec- I haven't seen enough about it on or heard enough to really look at it.

Im willing to pay more, but need to justify it, and it needs to be open platform- play with all cameras well. With analytic integration. And something with GOOD support that has GOOD support hours, whether it be 24/7 or atleast up til 8-9pm.

I know this is not the greatest comparison, but Im looking for something that was like how Pelco was back in the 90s and early 2000s. Solid reliability, great support....and correct me if Im wrong, mostly if not all US based?

Anyone with experience on Avigilon, Milestone, Genetec, Exacq, please chime in.

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Undisclosed #2

i formerly worked for an integrator firm for many years before I moved to the manufacturer side, so I think I can feel you pain... and I come from the support side, so maybe I am biased - but:

When I talk with my team, I always try and boil it down to the simplest of terms...

What do integrators want from the manufacturer they choose to represent?

imo, it's very simple. (integrators please weigh in with what you think of my thesis below)

1. A product at a decent price point that the integrator can make a decent profit selling.

2. A product that, more often than not, works as described.

3. When the occasional failure of #2 above occurs, the integrator can reach someone who can solve their problems quickly and efficiently.

What else matters?

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

#2 very well put. I would also add effective/proactive communication.

with reference to the issue of where recording ceased when win 10 would update, it turned out to be a directX issue where the codecs had to be reactivated. The only way I found out is when a customer came to me asking where their video was. And I contacted luxriot, and they quickly figured it out and fixed it, but it happened at least 2 times after that, and across several customers.

I made the comment to the owner via email, orestis of “given the nature of the software, and customers finding out this issue when it’s too late, don’t you think you owe it to your integrators to send out a mass email saying this issue exists, check your systems?”...you know...own up to an issue. All I heard was crickets and no email was ever sent out alerting integrators of this issue. So if you run luxriot, be sure to check your systems to see if motion detection is working and they’re recording.

Im sure that they knew of the issue before I reported it.

The biggest thing when it comes to communication with me is- if you have a glitch, communicate it. If you screw up, communicate it...Don’t BS me. If I know ahead of time I can take measures to at least reduce a headache...but having a customer come to me asking where their video makes me look bad, and makes me mad, but luxriot don’t seem to care...just another day in the park for them.

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Undisclosed #2

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

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Undisclosed #3

Is making a profit from "sales" really the most important thing to consider from a manufacturer?

Is it -really-?

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Undisclosed #2

In reply to Undisclosed #3

the list of 3 above was not ordered by 'importance', but instead as a group of things that are all important.

are you suggesting that making a profit isn't important?

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Undisclosed #3

My business model is service based, not sales based. We get paid for doing the work.

When I first got in to the industry, I would sell anyone anything with zero regard for,, well,, anything. A sale is a sale. I'm pretty good at the pitch and have sold many people many useless items of little to no value over my work history.

I've since developed ethics.

I'm currently accrediting systems in a Russian break-away that peoples lives; and the integrity of US assets rely on, so no. *Sales* profit is not an important part of my business model. I provide a clear service charge for services and offer goods ~cost.

There are more ways to make money than knowingly shoving shiny things down people throats.

That's why I encourage people to get out of the residential model ASAP and in to commercial/Government etc because residential is cut-throat and quite honestly,, fosters bad practices within the industry as a whole. Residential monitoring service is akin to checking the insurance option on your car rental. Unnecessary. Yet, the big security companies hire sales people in droves to shove monitoring down the throats of people that are genuinely concerned for their safety. You are better off adding exterior lighting to your house than getting monitoring but the companies don't pitch that because it doesn't involve reoccurring revenue.

1) It needs to work to specs.

2) It can't be prohibitively expensive, or I won't pitch it to normal clients. I will never suggest an Axis system to a friend unless they can literally afford to burn money.

3) They have to be flexible. If they work with me I will be a staunch advocate for their products for LIFE. In my case, most of my work is overseas. I once had lightning take out 15ish Panasonic PTZ cameras and multiple power supplies before we had got the lighting protection installed. They sent out new boards UNDER WARRANTY without having us send the bad ones back. They literally saved my ass as the Government would not have paid for a change order if the work was our fault. One could argue that a lighting strike was an act of god, which it is, however we didn't have the grounding rods onsite, let alone staked in the ground before we had got the system up and running so I still do feel responsible. I LOVE dealing with Panasonic but they are falling behind, unfortunately.

Just my opinion. I'm sorry if anyone takes offense to my dig at residential, but it is what it is.

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Undisclosed #4

In reply to Undisclosed #3

IPVMU Certified

I've since developed ethics.

how did you go about developing them?

FWIW, I consider myself only (at best) ethically average: holier than some, less holy than others, nothing special.

But I’ve tried more than once to really beef up my ethics, usually seeing some initial progress as I climbed up the moral high ground. People would notice and give me encouragement...

However, within weeks I would inevitably lose my gains (and then some) backsliding down the slippery slope after being rudely thrown by my indignant horse.

So what’s your secret?

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Undisclosed #3

Me personally, stepping over body parts of dead Jihadis after an attack that killed 16 people did it for me.

It certainly didn't help that a local (hero) guard, whom was bleeding out -after getting shot by 7.6.2 multiple times- went to hit an alarm that didn't work and died in vain.

(Public domain)

My secret is to go to a country where many would rather you dead, on a job where people's lives depend on the work you perform.

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Undisclosed #4

In reply to Undisclosed #3

IPVMU Certified

My secret is to go to a country where many would rather you dead, on a job where people's lives depend on the work you perform.

So you work at the Post Office?

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Bas Poiesz

I have two words for you: Network Optix. Download a free demo and give it a try. Their vids on youtube give you a sense of the kind of company you will be working with. Our experience with them has been really great.

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John Honovich

IPVM

In reply to Bas Poiesz

Network Optix cannot be bought directly in North America. That's why I recommended DW. There's also Hanwha but they charge more for mostly the same Network Optix OEMed software.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #9

There's also Hanwha but they charge more for mostly the same Network Optix OEMed software.

But do they offer any value add in service? Service is mainly why we dropped DW Spectrum. Charging more for good service can still be a pro.

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Sean Patton

UI1,

You have a lot of common concerns and requirements of most integrators, and it seems like you're getting some good responses.

From a support standpoint, we only saw 1 pure VMS (Milestone) and 1 end-to-end (Avigilon) consistently come up in our Best Manufacturer Support Survey. Both of those can be on the expensive end of the pricing spectrum, but Milestone has some free and lower cost solutions for small systems. Axis was also at the top of the list, but primarily for their hardware support, not VMS offerings.

Exacq would typically be in the argument for reasonably priced, rock solid VMS, but was also at the top of our list of Worst Manufacturer Technical Support. However, they responded to the results, which were posted here (Exacq Improving Technical Support). We have not resurveyed integrators since, but some might comment here regarding any changes in the quality of support from Exacq.

I think there are also more questions that need to be asked:

What size systems (how many cameras, servers) do you deploy?
Are there any specific features or integrations (access control, intercom, LPR) your typical systems need?
Do you use video analytics?
What camera manufacturers do you typically sell?
Are your customers interested in, or asking about cloud solutions?

This is obviously a big step for any integrator, and there are many options out there. One of the big factors I always put weight on as an integrator was, how long has the sales rep been at the manufacturer, and is it someone you like and can work with? Depending on the types of deals, and how much you need to work with the rep, the impact of this will vary.

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Undisclosed Integrator #5

If you don't need the best looking GUI we have great luck Salient in terms of sales support, tech support, and stability. They will also support you even if you don't have software support, just no upgrades.

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Undisclosed #6

Take a look at Video Insight......great U.S. based support.

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Undisclosed #7

Senstar Symphony (formerly Aimetis) has a great support team, with North American presence, and the mature product which is fully functioned with many analytics including LPR, Facial Recognition, auto-tracking, and more, is running in thousands of locations, including many key airports, around the globe.

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Undisclosed #8

They don't typically get a ton of love around here, but I absolutely love Salient in these scenarios. I've used them for a number of years. Their support (when needed, which is very rare) is very good, their pricing is competitive overall, the product works very well with a wide variety of 3rd-party cameras, and it's easy to use and easy to set up.

Give them a shot.

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John Honovich

IPVM

Salient tested poorly. They have their all new 20/20 version coming out and we have repeatedly checked in with them to see when it will be released. Once it is, we will test that and adjust our stance appropriately.

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Undisclosed #8

John, that report is over two years old. Furthermore, a Salient representative responded and corrected some of the incorrect statements in the overview, but I never saw any revision or change to the article.

Furthermore -- and I realize this is subjective -- everyone has different things that they look for and value in a VMS. For my clients that use Salient, they value the things that Salient does well, and they obviously don't value some of the things that you called out that Salient lacked (in your opinion). Such is the nature of this industry -- there are a myriad of choices for clients that need different things. I didn't claim that it would work for everyone, but all of my clients that used Salient absolutely loved it.

Overall, I disagree with your making the flippant statement that you made of "Salient tested poorly." That's a gross oversimplification that is based on a handful of things that YOU value, and it ignored the many things that Salient DOES do well. Is it perfect? No. Does it do everything? No. But the OP also asked for the following:

* "reasonably priced". Check. By any measure, Salient is reasonably priced.

* "rock solid...rarely has issues". Check. Multiple clients with dozens of locations using Salient, and we rarely ever had issues of any type. The biggest problem we had was a few old analog capture cards failing out of the blue, which they replaced under warranty. Otherwise, very few issues.

* "Support is amazing." Check. The few times that we had to call support, it was also quick and very good. They will help anyone with a system, no certifications required.

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Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

Does it do everything?

I mean it at least does ONVIF, right?

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Undisclosed #8

That's a nice attempt at snark, but it fails pretty miserably.

Not one time have I ever considered if a camera or a VMS was ONVIF conformant. Why? Because it's the most useless standard on the planet. Avigilon cameras are "ONVIF conformant", and that plus a $5 bill will get you a cup of overpriced coffee.

Anyone that actually cares about what they are doing will check any camera that goes into the system against the manufacturer's approved list before they do anything anyways. ONVIF offers me absolutely nothing.

Nice try though.

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Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

Not one time have I ever considered if a camera or a VMS was ONVIF conformant. Why?

If I used Salient neither would I

Because it's the most useless standard on the planet.

Factually wrong, PSIA is clearly worse ;)

Here’s the thing about ONVIF, other people do use it, even if you don’t. It’s probably cheaper to write a single ONVIF driver than a proprietary one, esp. now that there are so many programmers familiar with ONVIF.

What’s the great opposition, then? Principle?

ONVIF offers me absolutely nothing.

So you never wanted to use a camera with Salient that wasn’t on the supported device list?

Ever?

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John Honovich

IPVM

John, that report is over two years old.

Yes, because Salient has been saying for more than a year that the new version will come out. But it has not. That's on them.

We test on functionalities, the functionalities of the VMS they still ship is poor relative to competitors. You're welcome to recommend them based on other factors such as price, support, etc.

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Undisclosed #8

"We test on functionalities."

Yes, a narrow set of functionalities that can and often does vary from platform to platform and product to product.

The fact that you don't seem to grasp that responding to my post that was "recommend[ing] them based on other factors such as price, support, etc." with "SALIENT TESTED POORLY" is unfortunately not all that surprising. Your post is going to dissuade people from even taking a look at them to see if they are interested, which is completely against the entire point of this thread.

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John Honovich

IPVM

a narrow set of functionalities that can and often does vary from platform to platform and product to product.

Which specific set of functionalities do you want us to test on that we have not?

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Sean Patton

•Dec 11, 2018

A quick update here, we had a conversation with Salient and they asked to wait until January to schedule the test; so we will be testing their new VMS early in 2019

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Christopher Uiterwyk

IPConfigure

IPConfigure Orchid Fusion VMS never disappoints and if you have IT experience our Virginia based support team is beyond helpful. Let us know if you would like a 90 day trial license!

Regards,

Chris

IPConfigure CEO

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Christopher Uiterwyk

Does it integrate with analytics?

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Christopher Uiterwyk

IPConfigure

3rd party analytics are supported via the Orchid Fusion APPs platform.

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Adam Anderson

Network Optix software NX Witness if a phenomenal V.M.S. In the states you must buy DW Spectrum or Hanwha WAVE. Very clean, user friendly interface. Inexpensive and no fees for updates. Also included in cloud remote login. We have been integrated Spectrum for our residential customers also.

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John Warehime II

I'm a bit late to this party, and I don't comment much. However, I felt that I could add something to this conversation. . . good or bad, lol.

Firstly, I appreciate all of the knowledge / opinions / and experience that I am able to leverage from each of you. With the years of experience I can pull from IPVM, you all make my job just a bit easier, and make me seem that much more qualified in the eyes of my clients. _Thank You_

To the OP: You should view each of these recommendations as "movie critic" reviews. At the end of the day, look into a handful that review better than others, TEST TEST TEST, and pick the one that fits your organization best.

With that said, my organization has used the Salient VMS platform for 2-3 years and is our current VMS of choice. Manufacturer support is KEY for us, and Salient does not disappoint. My staff has called them many times over the years, almost always a technician caused issue / mis-configuration. They have been great, and will assist you or your techs in pinpointing the issue, and walk you through the solution. We never feel rushed to get off the phone, and always have that feeling of a "Partnership" during each of our installs.

The VMS software Rarely has issues (most issues we experience are as mentioned above, caused by us). I chalk up the lack of software issues to the fact that the software has not been overhauled in quite some time. This WILL change in short order (check back in Dec-Jan). So the Lack of issues, take that with a grain of salt, and please do not confuse the lack of software updates to mean that they do not update camera support . . . these are updated weekly from my experience. I have only had a few non-brand / end user purchased ebay cams not work. But all in all . . . their camera support and compatibility has been great for us.

Price-wise . . . I don't check this regularly, so I cannot say that this currently is the best priced option. What I will tell you is that simplicity in pricing model, and consistency in tier'd pricing options makes our margins a non-issue for us, or our clients. We make a solid return off of this investment each and every time. Honestly, either way if you can sell the client on the benefit . . . you take price out of the discussion anyway. Always within reason of course.

Is Salient the best VMS software out there today, most likely not . . . otherwise we couldn't afford it, lol. I'm sure that John H. is correct on his review, 2 years old or not . . . Salient hasn't changed that much, which has been a sticking point for many. But I can't let that take away from MY experience with the software, company, support, and our business' success in the Security Camera field.

Salient is worthy of consideration, and should not be thrown out as a BAD VMS solution.

**One last item worth mentioning: I love the fact that Salient can be installed on Hardware that I provide (Dell Servers for example). As an MSP, the technology side is where we live and die. So to be able to leverage one side of my organization to support the other (telecom / Security) has made a world of difference for us. I have NOT been a fan of the hardware that Salient provides, as I have found it to be under spec'd for our needs almost every time.

I hope this helps!

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John Honovich

In reply to John Warehime II

IPVM

John W, thanks for the informative comment! We look forward to testing Salient's new 20/20 version when it is released.

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Vitaly Bondarenko

Luxriot

Dear Undisclosed Integrator #1,

On behalf of the team I want to extend my sincerest apologies for the negative experience that you had with our products and customer service. I understand that we may have let you down, and for that we are very sorry. We do our best to deliver impeccable products and support. We train each of our support representatives on how to properly handle our customers’ issues, including how to escalate problems, that they are unable to assist with. We apologize if your concern was not handled properly, and we are going to take steps to ensure that this situation does not repeat itself.

We want to thank you for bringing the issue to our attention, although, in a public and expressive form. We are always looking for ways to improve our software and service. It will be very helpful if you would disclose yourself to us, so we can review your support ticket(s) to identify any weak points in our support system and procedures.

Should you need help in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me directly, as I will be very happy to assist you personally.

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John King

In my opinion and strickly looking at VMS's, I would suggest the following in order of preference and reliability (not cost):

1. Milestone - a purely VMS company that as amazing analytics, mobile apps, and great storage features. (Probably the most expensive and has annual SSAs.)

2. Genetec - they started out as a VMS company and have gotten into the ACS business. They are major players and have a rock solid platform. (Moderately expensive and has annual SSAs.)

3. exacqVision - super easy to use and deploy and extremely cost effective. (One time cost with no SSA.)

NOTE: All three have 3rd party software integrations such as LPR, POS, and mobile apps.

For very small locations (16 cameras or less) - Milestone, Axis, Mobotix, and a host of many more vendors have license free VMS options available.

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Michael Miller

Besides LPR what analytics are built into Milestones software?

Also doesn't Exacq have yearly software fees that you don't have to pay until you are required too?

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Jared Tarter

Milestone Systems

As a note, Milestone's SSAs (called Care Plus and Care Premium) are not required with the exception of the first year for XProtect Expert and XProtect Corporate. The SSAs are also not tied to being able to receive tech support (we will support any product that has not been discontinued according to our product lifecycle) and Device Packs (camera drivers) and hotfixes are always free regardless of whether there is an SSA in place or not.

The main benefit of Care Plus is free software upgrades and the main benefit of Care Premium (in addition to the free software upgrades) is 24/7 support, prioritized case handling, and committed response times. There are other benefits of Care as well though.

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Michael Miller

In reply to Jared Tarter

Jared, I know my question wasn't directed at you but I was wondering if you could answer the analytics question for Milestone. Besides LPR what analytics are built into Milestones software?

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Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

Besides LPR what analytics are built into Milestones software?

VMD is an analytic technically, no? ;)

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Michael Miller

I think if you're telling customers that VMD is analytics your part of the problem of why lots of people have a bad taste in there mount about analytics.

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Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

Tell Avigilon.

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Michael Miller

Lol... love it. At least they have video analytics built-in and not just saying they have "amazing analytics", which is really VMD.

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John King

Besides VMD, schedules, smart walls, and LPR, which are pretty common; Milestone can accept an ASCII trigger from an external device to trigger an event like recording. They can also record screen activity on Windows devices, from their mobile app, as well as integrate Smart maps. The system architecture makes it easy to scale and there are custom client and management dashboards. Also, there's a relatively new feature called DNLA that allows cameras to be displayed directly to most smart TVs.

What I really like is the scaling of the video for long term storage. This is a feature that isn't very common in the VMS world. Basically, it allows you to move short term video (commonly 12 fps or better) to long term storage (generally 1-6 fps) without breaking the chain of evidence. This feature can significantly save on storage.

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Michael Miller

So no other analytics are built-in to Milestone besides LPR engine, got it.

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Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

So no other analytics are built-in to Milestone besides LPR engine, got it.

Don’t be so modest; you ‘got it’ before you even asked the question...

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Undisclosed #2

Image result for no sales pitches

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #9

•Oct 26, 2018

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #9

No "canned" sales pitches. Sales pitches are allowed if they are relevant, substantive and address at least partially the question or issue at hand.

IPVM bot#124

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Undisclosed #2

•Oct 26, 2018

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Jared Tarter

•Oct 26, 2018

Milestone Systems

Hi Michael,

We sell LPR as an add-on. For other analytics, we partner with a number analytics companies that have solid integrations into our software such as AgentVI, BriefCam, Herta, etc. This also includes 4+ companies that also do LPR in case someone wants features or functionality that isn't available in our software.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #10

https://ipvm.com/reports/canon-to-buy-axis

The purely VMS company Milestone is part of the Canon group, along with Axis communications.

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Mark Halleck