Subscriber Discussion

Using Lower Cost Cameras With 1000+ Genetec System

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jun 07, 2018

Hi, ours is large single location educational institute (15K students) with more than 1000 cameras (80% indoors) already installed and plan to install 1000 more for newly constructed buildings. We use Genetec and mostly 1-2 brands of cameras till now. Hardware infrastructure is adequate & scalable; and located in same location.

The requirement of camera varies. For example, corridor may need camera with more zoom and resolution; whereas staircases may not necessary be the same. Sensitive areas may need cameras with better features.

We are thinking of buying low cost Genetec compatible cameras of one or more brands for not-so-important locations due to cost constraints.

The advantage is clearly cost. It meets the requirement because the cameras are Genetec compatible. Now I am working on detailed disadvantages to ensure that we do not go absolute wrong to save money. Please give your opinion.

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Sean Patton
Jun 07, 2018

There will be a couple things to consider.

What do you consider low cost?

Hikvision cameras are not supported by Genetec, so you can scratch those off the list if you were considering them. This will obviously impact any of the Hik OEMs that are out there as well.

Lower cost Hanwha and Axis cameras have performed well in our testing, and generally offer full support with Genetec, but they aren't nearly as low cost as Dahua (just for an example). A low cost Axis M3045-V sells for ~$240 online, versus a similar model from Dahua (DH-IPC-HFW42A1SN) can be found for ~$150.

Ultimately, it really shouldn't matter as long as the cameras produce the images you require, and the cameras are supported by Genetec. Many integrators stand by Dahua and other low cost options as being good cameras for fair prices, regardless of VMS.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jun 10, 2018

I could not find the Dahua model you described i.e. DH-IPC-HFW42A1SN in Genetec Support Devices.

I used this link https://www.genetec.com/solutions/resources/supported-device-list

 

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Sean Patton
Jun 11, 2018

Good catch, it also appears to be an old model Dahua. It is listed as ONVIF compliant on the Dahua USA website, so it would be supported by Genetec using the ONVIF Extension on any Archiver.

The suggested replacement from Dahua USA is the DH-IPCHFW42A1EN, which I'm seeing for just over $200 online.

Again, as you've summarized earlier in this discussion, there are a lot of variables to consider. One of those is price. You'll need to weigh the other variables vs price and decide where it intersects with capabilities and ease of managing your system.

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jun 21, 2018

Hi Sean

I could NOT find Dahua DH-IPC-HFW42A1SN in Genetec supported devices. If this is true, these two models mentioned in your response are not comparable for my requirements.

 

 

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Sean Patton
Jun 21, 2018

Sorry, I'm not super familiar with Dahua part numbers, but I confirmed the Dahua Bullet on Genetec's supported list is :DH-IPC-4231E Datasheet

Also to be clear I'm not recommending or suggesting this camera is what you should be using, I just wanted to highlight one possible example of a low cost camera that is supported by Genetec.

There are a number of IPC-4231 versions supported:

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 07, 2018

I've been having a lot of success with the Hanwha XNV-6011.  They are less expensive than the Axis model you've called out, small, discrete, 2MP, vandal resistant, and indoor/outdoor.  They also make a flush mount version for ceiling tiles.

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U
Undisclosed #5
Jun 07, 2018

XND-6011F if you want the mic indoors with audio analytics.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #3
Jun 07, 2018

Consider managing passwords and firmware management across cameras when dealing with large sites. Dealing with multi brands can be painstaking as you divert your attention across multiple vendors for any fixes/ feature. Look for something that is durable for years [from EOL and support perspective]. Consider cybersecurity aspect of things as well when hooking onto cheap products.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Jun 07, 2018

100% agree with U3.  We're in a similar situation (Ed end-user, 1000 cam, Milestone).  Standardized on Axis.  The tools we use cover the whole implementation which really cuts down on our personnel time overhead.  Their (axis) portfolio is also robust now to cover pretty much all of our needs: high-end all the way down to (recently) low cost cameras which I'd peg at $300 or less.  Maybe even cheaper.   My definition anyway.  I know some folks might say <$100 or even $50 but I don't see most of that level as really viable for what we're shooting for / for the way we operate. 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #8
Jun 13, 2018

200% agree with U3. I'm not yet at 1000 cameras but when you really start to manage that size environment the way we are supposed to (actively), you have to consider a companys approach to cybersecurity, their management tools, and how that all will fit in with your process for actively managing this environment. 

There are alot of little things that should eliminate a camera from your list of potentials when you start talking about 1000 camera systems. Management tools become really important at that point in my experience. 

I feel like anyone with that size investment (licensing for1000 cameras on genetec isnt cheap,)  can afford to buy a camera thats well supported by the vms you are invested in and is manufactured by someone that responds well to issues, is proactive regarding security, and communicates with their customers/partners well. 

 

 

 

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: End User: Managing 1,000 Camera Systems And Handling Cybersecurity

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Steve Beck
Jun 07, 2018

Take a look at the Hanwha Q series cameras. We have deployed about a 100 of them since March with great success in K-12 school districts. We aren't a Genetec house so I would recommend getting one in and seeing how you like it. 

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MM
Michael Miller
Jun 07, 2018

What VMS are you using with those Hanwha cameras?

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Steve Beck
Jun 07, 2018

Exacq. H.265 is working fine with them.

I am going to play with one on WAVE at our shop when can I snag an extra one away.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Jun 08, 2018

Have you tried going direct to a dealer?

 

..crickets..

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 08, 2018

Contacting a dealer or manufacturer for a job this size would be best.  They will usually set you up with special project pricing if you are able to give them a bill of materials.

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Brandon Frazier
Jun 08, 2018
IPVMU Certified

We specify (I am a consultant) a lot of Hanwha Q-series cameras on our K-12 projects where budgets are an issue.  Specifically, we specify QND-7080R for the flexibility of the varifocal lens with autofocus and the 4mp resolution.  When budgets get really tight, we will lean towards the fixed lens options such as the 4mp QND-7010R or the 2mp QND-6010R.  For exterior cameras, we still lean towards the Hanwha X series for the better performance, but the QNV-7080R is also still a decent option.

Genetec has a very good integration with these cameras incorporating both the H.265 and the ability to set the WiseStream smart codecs right from the Genetec interface.  You can also adjust the WDR, hallway view mode, update firmware and many other camera settings right from the Genetec interface making the management much easier.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jun 10, 2018

Thanks Sean, Steve, Michael, Brandon, end users & integrators for useful information. I tried to summarize as below:

Advantages:

  1. Reduced cost
  2. Technical fit if the camera model is compatible with Genetec
  3. Having different brand will eliminate monopoly to get better rate & service

 Disadvantages:

  1. Having multiple brands means:
    1. Managing different firmware and security patches
    2. Managing different vendors and their product warranty
  2. Cheaper products may have more cyber security risk

 

To conclude, is it correct to say "We can go ahead with mix of 2-3 brands with Genetec as long as it fits in our technical requirements and cost"

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Brandon Frazier
Jun 11, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Yes, I would agree with your conclusion. We have many client that over the years have selected cameras based on what fit their needs and budgets regardless of brand and are very happy with reliable systems. I am not sure what version of Genetec you are on but recent updates have made monitoring firmware versions very simple so I would be less concerned with that. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jun 10, 2018

Once you pick some cameras that fit the budget don't forget to trail them in real life circumstances. I'd look for the following too:

#1 Do they provide the image you need day/night or in certain circumstances such as strong backlight.

#2 Can they do the above without excessive throughput? If you are saving on cameras but spending more on servers and storage is it really worth it?

#3 Various features which are helpful - Multicast from camera (if you are using that). 2-3 streams to allow for stream switching or remote viewing. Granular motion detection on camera (Green bars of motion activity in recording timeline). Physical fit/finish, ease of installation etc.

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Mark Bottomley
Jun 12, 2018

I'm not sure on your installation requirements, however mounting, cabling and licensing could easily swamp the price delta in the cameras. You also need to consider that every new camera type might require additional spares if you do like for like replacement on failure. On the other side, you may not stock many or any spares depending on your replacement/repair minimum durations.

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