Subscriber Discussion

Using IP Cameras And An NVR On A Semi Tractor And Trailer

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Aug 17, 2016

This is my first time starting a new post, having joined the forum only recently, so please bear with me.

My interest in security systems is due to owning a tractor/trailer (otherwise known as a semi or an 18-wheeler) and wanting to equip it with cameras and a recorder. I have been in a number of situations where no one who knew how to "spot" for me was available while I was backing up the rig, making "get out and look" many, many times the only option.

I also plan on towing a small utility trailer behind our big trailer. Since the utility trailer is narrower than the big trailer, the only way to see what it is doing while driving down the road will be to have a camera in the back watching it.

In addition, the system will be an extended "dash cam" to record what's going on around the truck.

I come from an engineering/scientific background and have a decided bent toward "Do It Yourself", so months before I discovered this forum, I was looking for cameras and a recorder.

I decided on a special deal from Newegg, which was a system from Q-See. It included a QC858 IP NVR and eight QCN8012B 3 MP IP bullet cameras, cables, and a 48 v power pack. (I understand that Dahua is the manufacturer of Q-See hardware.) The system I bought came without a hard disk, but I have recently purchased a 4 TB Western Digital Purple NV to put in it (on special at Amazon.com).

The things I most need to address are mostly hardware oriented. Perhaps someone has suggestions for the items below.

  • I have found the cameras have a narrower field of view (FOV) than I would like. Things purpose-sold for dash cams have fields of view from 130 to 170 degrees, but I have not found anything at a reasonable price in the traditional security camera niche. A box camera with a Theia SY125 lens would do the job nicely, but at a significant cost. (In case you haven't noticed, I'm trying to keep the cost down.)
  • A pertinent question is, "How much FOV do I really need?" Perhaps I can use one of the dedicated dash/backup cameras with a video to IP converter, if such exist. Day/night and WDR would be useful features to have and probably are not available on the low-cost dash/backup cameras. I have been looking at less-expensive cameras, particularly ones from Supercircuits. Should I stay away? If so, why?
  • I will mount the NVR with its hard disk on the back of the driver's seat, which is pneumatically suspended, to protect it as much as possible from road shocks. I'll just need to be careful to not go over bumps hard enough to bottom out the seat -- which may be difficult; I bottomed out the seat on a recent drive. Perhaps additional shock-proofing would be in order, but I'm not sure how to do that.
  • The network wiring on the tractor and the trailer will be somewhat standard, but the disconnectable umbilical between the two will need special considerations for the flexibility and fatigue resistance required for the task as well as the weatherproofness of the connectors at both ends.
  • I plan on having a connection box on the underside of the tractor's sleeper and another on the front of the trailer to which the umbilical will be connected. That way the the umbilical can be disconnected at either (or both) ends. For this, the connectors on the ends of the umbilical and the connectors on the connection boxes to which it connects will both need to be weatherproof -- when connected and disconnected.
  • I thought of using plastic Hoffman boxes for the connection boxes with bulkhead weatherproof RJ-45 connectors for both the umbilical and for the CAT V cables coming from their sources/going to their destinations, with CAT V jumpers in the trailer's connection box between the two sets of external connectors. I'm still looking for the best solution to this problem.
  • Mounting the cameras will be another area of concern, since they will be entirely out in the weather. This, however, should not be much different from other outside installations. The Q-See cameras I purchased have a "strange" RJ-45 receptacle on the end of a short cable, shown in the photograph below, that looks like it might have the potential to be weatherproof when used with an appropriate mating connector. I asked about mating connectors, but no one with whom I spoke knew anything about them. Other than using those in a weatherproof configuration, it looks like I will have to mount a weatherproof junction box on the side of the trailer and mount the camera to that.

Q-See Camera Ethernet Connector

  • One camera, however, will not be out in the weather, the one in the cab of the truck looking forward. I could use two Q-See cameras, with their narrower-than-desired FOV, aimed at different sections of the view ahead, or I could use one new camera with a wider FOV. I could also change the lens in Q-See camera to one with a shorter focal length. (The sales rep at Q-See became nearly apoplectic when I inquired about that possibility.) The same viewing consideration also applies to the camera(s) at the tail-end of the trailer, but of course, that is/those are out in the weather. I'm not sure how having two cameras for the forward view would work compared to having only one camera.
  • The outside cameras, 13' off the ground, will need to be IP66. Should I specify IK10 as well?
  • I'm also trying to figure out how to mount the monitor of the cab in front of and above the driver (not unlike an offset rear-view mirror). I've been looking on the Newegg and Ergotron websites, but the problem I have is that the monitor needs to move straight back into its mounting position. Most of the wall mounts I have seen require the monitor to slide down along the wall to engage the two sections of the mount.

Is there anything else I have forgotten?

Thank you,


Craig

 

JH
John Honovich
Aug 17, 2016
IPVM

Craig, welcome and thanks for posting such an insightful and well researched topic / question.

To kick things off, let me comment on this:

I have found the cameras have a narrower field of view (FOV) than I would like. Things purpose-sold for dash cams have fields of view from 130 to 170 degrees

That is a really good point. I did not realize this myself but after searching through our Camera Finder, this is the case. The Q-See cameras you have are spec'd at 65 to 70 degrees. You can get ~100 degrees fairly widely but the 130 to 170 ones tend to be consumer proprietary cameras.

A pertinent question is, "How much FOV do I really need?"

Our Camera calculator can help here.

Some examples:

I'll defer on the install questions to others with stronger expertise there.

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Aug 17, 2016

Craig, welcome and thanks for posting such an insightful and well researched topic / question.

Thank you, John, for the welcome and the compliment.

Your Camera Calculator pictures are more informative than the ones I generated a couple of months ago when the use of the Camera Calculator was offered to non-PRO subscribers.

It's a judgement call how much FOV is really needed; for this application I think bigger is better -- but maybe I'm wrong. It will be interesting what others say.

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 17, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Craig, one thing jumped out at me right away:

Mounting the cameras will be another area of concern, since they will be entirely out in the weather. This, however, should not be much different from other outside installations.

I don't think that assumption is warranted. There are some major environmental differences between a typical camera exposed to the elements and one externally mounted to a moving vehicle. For instance,

  1. Sustained 60MPH (+headwind) water steams
  2. Hail, snow @ 60+ MPH
  3. Kick-up (dirt, pebbles, etc) from the road
  4. Sustained vibrations

Therefore, IMHO, I think that the half-life of a q-see bullet camera mounted on a regularly used truck is less than 1 yr.

Unfortunately, most of the products rated for such service are far more expensive. And I'm not saying not to do it either, just to set your expectations.

Then if they last 2+ years, you can take a bow. :)

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Aug 18, 2016

I don't think that assumption is warranted. There are some major environmental differences between a typical camera exposed to the elements and one externally mounted to a moving vehicle.

Well, at least the cameras outside will be pointing backwards! :-)

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Brad Peterson
Apr 26, 2017

Craig,

Did you ever get any additional information concerning your Truck question??  I was considering doing the same on my RV and had the same concerns mentioned by Undisclosed #1.

 

Brad P

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Apr 26, 2017

Did you ever get any additional information concerning your Truck question??

I did get some insight from Advice On Vehicle Based Camera Systems, another article on this web site, but I have not solved everything.

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Armando Perez
Apr 26, 2017
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Interestingly enough, I've actually mouted a box cam with a theia lens recessed into the rear bumper for a semi trailer. I'll post back here tomorrow with some more insight.

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Mar 09, 2018

Interestingly enough, I've actually mouted a box cam with a theia lens recessed into the rear bumper for a semi trailer. I'll post back here tomorrow with some more insight.

Armando,

Do you have more insight on your camera in the rear bumper?

Thanks,

 

Craig

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Armando Perez
Mar 09, 2018
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Sorry forgot to come back.

These are the pics I have left from before the install was fully complete.

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Armando Perez
Mar 09, 2018
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Mar 09, 2018

Thank you, Armando!

I understand the first two pictures without problems, but I'm a little confused by the rest.

Are they at the front of the trailer underneath the ThermoKing reefer shown in the fourth picture?

Is there more than one camera? That's a lot of hardware for just one camera.

Given the date of the pictures, and the cables shown in the lower-right of the fourth picture, are the cameras analog?

The box shown in the third picture is quite large; I can't imagine where it might be located.

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Armando Perez
Mar 09, 2018
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

This setup had I believe 12 cameras. The cameras were analog, running through baluns and then encoded to a NUUO NVR running solid state drives. Remember this was started in 2004. There was alot more on board than just video. Temperature controls for biological samples, telematics, multiple cellular connections, GPS, controls for three different sealed and adjustable environmental areas in the trailer, along with some anti-theft features and remote deactivation of the tractor and trailer, backups for the backups, etc... It was a mobile biological sample repository. The inside of this trailer was built to get to -17 degrees celcius and maintain it within 0.2 degrees, if I remember correctly. If I dont remember correctly, it was something equally insane. We were involved in quite a bit of it, but not all of it. The reefer unit is above one of the cameras on the trailer facing the tractor, specifically for monitoring anybody who may be hitching a ride. We did multiple versions of this over time as their needs changed. NUUO was not the best choice in hindsight, but it matched what was already in the building and wasnt really ours to choose.

 

The third pictures shows our power supplies and some of the baluns installed, along with a relay for triggering one of who knows how many actions or alarm conditions. The recorder is not pictured and neither are alot of our other parts that went into that box. The boxes were located on the edge of the only portion of the trailer with a reasonable controlled temperature. 

If you look closely you can see some of the bracing and reinforcement to the trailer frame in one of the pictures.

This was the very definition of custom. My favorite kind of work. Bring us some crazy problem in an environment its not really supposed to function in and we will make it happen.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 09, 2018

You can take a look at this, will probably serve your purpose

 

Backeye 360

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Armando Perez
Mar 09, 2018
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

That is a really neat option. The world has come a long way.

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Mar 10, 2018

Wow! That is amazing!

 

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