Subscriber Discussion

Undisclosed Vs Undisclosed Ethernet Challenge - Who Will Go The Distance?

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 05, 2015
IPVMU Certified

Can or Can't?

Summary of events:*

The statements:

You cannot put 20 switches in place to extend a segment out to 2Km. - Undisclosed Manufacturer 1

You cannot get a single run of 300 meters to work. - Undisclosed 3

The challenge:

Tell you what, you setup a 300M 100Base-TX connection over any approved Category Cable and I'll setup 20 100Base-TX switches with 100M of Crap 5 cable between them. Undisclosed 3

The videos:

The 300M single cable over cat 5e video proof courtesy of Undisclosed Manufacturer 1:

First half of video proof for 20 switches for 20 feet from Undisclosed 3.

Timeline of video:

  • 0:00 20 Tenda 5.99 10/100 switches shown, bookended by Dlink POEs switch (left) and Dlink router (right).
  • 0:04 Monitor shown with active ping and video from Axis camera powered by Dlink POE switch. (red cable)
  • 0:11 Axis camera (black) shown on middle of table (red cable)
  • 0:15 Axis camera obscured by disembodied hand, low latency results shown on monitor.
  • 0:24 Closeup of Dlink router and then pan of front Tenda lights
  • 0:32 Closeup of Dlink POE, then following red cable to Axis P3367 5MP camera
  • 0:40 Top view of back switch connections
  • 0:50 View of Dlink router connection to computer (yellow cable)
  • 1:00 Back view of switch connections
  • 1:20 System overview page of Axis camera showing 192.168.0.101 address acquired thru DHCP without problem as well as bitrate of 86 Mbps. (MJPEG)
  • 1:28 Series of random power pulls and reconnections demonstrating robustness of the Tenda fabric
  • 2:28 Switch lights drive by and final overview.

Notes: Total of 23 ethernet interfaces involved from camera to computer. Total switch cost: < $120 for 100 ports, 62 usable ports = < $2 per port cost. The switch comes in a ruggedized version for $3 more "Tough on the outside, Tenda on the inside".

Patch cables are 1 foot.

Assuming there are no questions to this test, cables will be changed first to 150 ft, then 300 ft for the 2km final test.

*Out of courtesy to the OP I have pulled this sub-thread thread from Can't Use Ethernet Extenders For My IP Cameras, IT Against It

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MI
Matt Ion
•Nov 05, 2015

Doesn't quite have the same panache as "Kramer vs. Kramer" or "Spy vs. Spy" or even "Mr. & Mrs. Smith". Looking forward to the results though!

FWIW, I've done the daisy-chained switch thing before, in a large warehouse with several cameras along the way. Three cameras at the far end into one switch, that links down to a second switch with three more cameras, which links to a third switch with two more cameras, and then on to the IT room and into the main switch with the NVR and four other cameras at the other end of the building. Been pretty solid, too.

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U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 05, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Matt Ion

What the longest working 100BASE-TX category cable you ever come across?

MI
Matt Ion
•Nov 06, 2015
In reply to Undisclosed #1

I don't think I've KNOWINGLY used anything over about 350'.

I used to work for a company that was rolling out upgrades to their remote sites, replacing token-ring with ethernet, usually by swapping the T-R wired jacks for ethernet version at the desk end, and changing the cross-connects on a BIX panel. In almost every case this was seamless, but we did have one site where a far office was getting a link but no connectivity. In tracing the wire, we found it had at least two splices in the ceiling, one right beside a large HVAC unit, and estimated it to be close to 350' the way it zig-zagged through the ceiling.

Oh, and did I mention many of these sites (including this one) were all Cat3?

Surprised ANY of them worked as well as they did... in this particular case, the company got the far office rewired with Cat5e, routed on a more direct vector so as to reduce the overall length.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 11, 2015
IPVMU Certified

Three new videos: (be advised heavy breathing throughout)

This one with 150 ft cables between the switches.

Timeline:

  • 0:00 20 150ft pre-made crap 5e cables
  • 0:17 Switches with new connections 7ft patch cables, dual gender changers in 150ft cable bags. (Trying not to mess with the cable inside the bag so I could return it.)
  • 0:48 Refresh Axis client
  • 1:10 Obligatory proof of live video
  • 1:15 Switch light review
  • 1:39 Obligatory random power pulls

This one explains the money saving Distance Doubling Crosstalk Cable, which doubles the length of any 100BASE-T category cable by loop at the end and coming back on the spare pairs.

Although it was useful here, I can't think of another reason you would want to double your distance only to return to the same point you started!

Timeline:

  • 0:05 Cable presentation
  • 0:10 Length verification at ~50M
  • 0:38 Presentation of Distance doubling cable with splitter keystone
  • 1:12 Length verification of unconnected Distance double at ~1M
  • 1:31 Presentation of return path keystone
  • 1:45 Connection of Distance Doubler to 150M cable
  • 2:05 Length Verification of Distance Doubler + 50M cable at ~100M
  • 2:14 Obligatory pull of return path keystone, showing 50M

This one shows the last test with 20 added distance doublers

Timeline: (same stuff as other tests)

Only thing to watch for is the ridiculously clumsy one-handed keystone attachment at 0:21.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
•Nov 11, 2015

Try injecting the power from the switch down 300m and see what kind of result you have then?

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 11, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

1000ft UV Cat5e POE

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U
Undisclosed #3
•Nov 11, 2015
In reply to Undisclosed #1

With load plz !

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 11, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed #3

Load

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U
Undisclosed #3
•Nov 11, 2015
In reply to Undisclosed #1

Now try with cam which will consume about 7-9 Watt

your voltage will be down by about 5-7 Volts

I think

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 11, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed #3

Maybe, but fortunately this camera runs on watts, not volts.

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AT
Andrew Thomas
•Nov 15, 2015

What the heck got this started, and why?

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 15, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Andrew Thomas

Same question I was asked several times by my family, as they gazed wistfully into their former rec room...

I think the moral low point for me came when I subverted the 2 per household limit by having my eldest son go to the store later in the same day that I had, and pickup another 2 switches. Nothing beats being lectured to by your own in the same manner you lecture them:

Son: You know there's a good reason for the limit, right Dad?, They only have so many to go around. Legally, it's called hoarding.

Me: Oh, thx for the tip. Any idea counselor why they didn't tackle me when I picked the shelf clean of those 20 gender changers for 8.99 a pop? Besides, it's not hoarding, I'm returning them all tommorow, so...

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