Subscriber Discussion

Should I Use Access Door Position Switches Or Not?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Mar 14, 2019

I have one large client that per their standards does not use door position switches with access control.  The reason being that they have 18,000 access control points and only 3 people monitoring access control each shift.  There are scenarios where they are used.

Conversely, I have a new largish enterprise customer with roughly 1500 access control points whose previous contractor "gold-plated" their doors.  Doors with crashbars and electrified latch retraction kits have a PIR REX burning up the solenoids all over the place.  They have zero users monitoring the door contacts and have ample surveillance coverage of said doors.

For customer #2 who is extremely budget limited I am about to advocate no longer using door position switches based on customer #1.  Bad move or good move?

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Brian Rhodes
Mar 14, 2019
IPVMU Certified

I have the opinion you should almost always use DPS. 

In the case of having limited staff (3 people vs 18k points), having DPS makes triage or establishing criticality of events easier.

For example, if a door is locked, how do I know it is really secured unless it is also shut? (Not propped?)  DPS enables this confirmation.

Even if access monitoring isn't realtime, DPS still confirms doors aren't potentially susceptible to things like tailgating.  

For background, see our post: Door Position Switches (DPS) For Access Control Tutorial

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 14, 2019

I agree that DPS should almost always be used.  Our SOC only monitors access control based on alarms that are generated by these DPS.  Door open too long, door forced open, etc are all very useful tools to have as a security officer, at least for our business(es).

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Mar 14, 2019

Our SOC only monitors access control based on alarms that are generated by these DPS. Door open too long, door forced open, etc are all very useful tools to have as a security officer, at least for our business(es).

Since you are an end user this is very relevant feedback.  What if no one was monitoring and there was no SOC?  Does your feedback remain the same?  The security department is barebones.  The enterprise is all industrial environments.

As Brian mentioned above the DPS helps with items like tailgating and you mention more valid reasons.  However, I'm stuck with the "if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" saying stuck in my head.  Basically, if a door is forced open there are no guards on site to react, no one to acknowledge the alarm, and no one that really knows how to operate the system I feel like the whole thing is just noise.

Right now there are DPS at every door at every facility.  Each time I visit the factories at least 20% of those doors are propped open for a variety of reasons -  the shop floor is "too hot", the door is basically falling apart, "I didn't have a badge to get back in", etc.

Not trying to strongarm you into agreeing.  I'm simply laying out the facts to see if your decision would remain the same.  This is a new client we inherited from a failing competitor who has a reputation for trying to gold plate everything the further they've sunk.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 15, 2019

I would then challenge the need for access control at all on those doors they may just need access to the office.  There are solutions we use that are much more cost effective and still perform similarly to access control in that access can be turned on and off etc.  The main one we use is Assa Abloy Medeco XT.  If there is no one to monitor or use the "enterprise" level features of your access control I would argue the cost per door to be very high just to have the ability to turn on and off access to cards.  Just my opinion though.

We have a few shops that do similar.  In one case we put turnstiles outside along a fenced in area to control access in for coming to work and just left the shop open as fair game once inside.  In another case we just use IDS and video for after hours intrusion issues.  The other way we have done it was Access control the main office, IDS the site, and all keys to the out buildings, shop doors, etc are kept locked up in the office with no one taking them home. 

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SD
Shannon Davis
Mar 15, 2019
IPVMU Certified

I definitely agree with using the Assa Abloy Medeco XT. This is a simple way to control access to a door and not worry about the expensive re-keying when the master keys get lost. From my experience it is typically one of the higher ups that lose the master or grand master key. Talk about an expensive venture if you have to re-key all the doors. 

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Mark McRae
Mar 16, 2019
Inaxsys Security Systems

I would suggest using the DPS if for no other reason than to activate the sounder (piezo output) on the reader/REX if a door is inadvertently left propped open (because it does not close properly for whatever reason) or opened without a card being presented.

Those sounders are a loud enough to warn users that they did not properly close a door and will help to “train” users to look behind them as they cross monitored doors to verify that they closed properly. This will automatically reduce the number of door left open alarms that are generated by the system.

So even if no one is actively monitoring the system, the sounds generated by the system will encourage users to be more diligent about properly closing doors and will make the site more secure 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Mar 14, 2019

Also, thanks to whoever translated my post title into English from gibberish.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Mar 15, 2019

I think DPS should always be used ... it's a critical part of the complete event scenario from a forensic standpoint when trying to figure out what happened at a door, i.e. 1)card scan, 2) Door Open, 3) Rex event (if they are using a motion PIR REX, 4) Door Closed.  Take out #3 if REX device is a button or built into the door hardware.  Same goes for someone leaving .... 1) REX event, 2) Door Opened, 3) Door Closed.   

And more importantly, as Brian said, how will you know your door is actually closed or open? (Let's set aside the nefarious attempt of someone trying to fool a door sensor)

I have a client who keeps some of their access-controlled main lobby doors closed, but unlocked during portions of the day.  Often times, there is no one right inside these doors.  They choose not to use cameras for surveillance for a number of their own reasons, but finally realized they could use the event history of door open and close events to determine if FedEx, UPS, or USPS had actually opened the door and tossed a package inside when they said they did.

If they did have a VMS, they could certainly use one of the readily available systems that offer integration to ACS to link the DPS event with stored video (and not have to worry about setting up motion or line trip recording as the method to determine when someone entered an unlocked door).

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Mar 15, 2019

Using a DPS provides information after the fact if they choose not to use it proactively “now”.  That may change on a group of doors or buildings in the future and adding them later can be a pain.

Another option if they have alarm systems is to use relay output boards from the alarm system to gather door status into the access control system.

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Michael Silva
Mar 15, 2019
Silva Consultants

We always specify door position switches as part of access control designs, without exception.

Aside from monitoring the the door for door-forced and door-propped conditions, there can be other reasons for using the DPS. For example, many systems use the  DPS to reset the door unlock time - if you have the unlock time set for seven seconds, and the door is opened sooner, the door will immediately relock when opened rather than staying open the full seven seconds. This can help to reduce tailgating.

Also, if you are using anti-passback, some systems won't register use of the card for entry unless it sees a DPS input immediately after the card is presented.  

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JS
John Shea
Mar 15, 2019

This reminds me of being in a Data Center under construction.  Our security is designed for operations, when there are 10-50 around the clock employees who understand the importance of badging .  During construction security gets overwhelmed with 200-300 contractors running around forcing and propping every door they come across while their badge stays in their lunch box.

I agree with everybody, if you don't have DPS's you don't have access control.  Also, if you try to protect everything you protect nothing.  I recommend finding a list of things they do want to protect, and scheduling different doors to alarm at different levels at different times. 

I would get a manageable list, say 20-30 doors, they actually care about.  Server rooms, emergency exits, High Value Storage, ETC.  Set these to alarm at a very high priority, and have alarms of that priority to go straight to the mobile device of whoever is in charge of security or able to respond to alarms.  Make sure that people who do have access to these rooms, hopefully a very small list, are responsible enough to not cause false alarms or can be held accountable if they do. 

With the very high priority alarms out of the way I would then find out if there are certain rooms that aren't expected to have people in them at certain times, but aren't necessarily high priority.  I would set those to a medium priority during slow hours only.  If you get this list small enough and link it up to the cameras, reviewing the alarms the next morning to find out what was going on shouldn't be too labor intensive.

Then you take the rest of the doors, the doors you have pretty much given up on any hope of live monitoring, and set them to log event only.  That way you can run a report, but anybody logging into the ACS won't be flooded with thousands of alarm events they don't care about.  You can also set some of the more burned out doors to free entry during the times they are being abused the most.

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U
Undisclosed #5
Mar 15, 2019

"Doors with crashbars and electrified latch retraction kits have a PIR REX burning up the solenoids all over the place." Why is the REX unlocking the door to begin with? A valid read from the card reader should be the only thing firing the solenoid to unlock the door. The purpose of the REX is to shunt the DPS. As always, there are exceptions to this rule but not in this case as I read it...

I am in full agreement of ALWAYS designing and installing the DPS. Without the DPS you access control system is nothing more than an expensive, glorified key. 

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Dave Gideon
Mar 15, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Also the purpose of the REX is to log a legal exit event.  The door position switch is part of this logic. For such a low cost part of an access control system I don’t see a scenario when it makes sense from a cost/benefit standpoint

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