These Guys Like To Steal Meat

JH
John Honovich
Jan 06, 2017
IPVM

From Vice, interview with a criminal, money quote:

Everyone needs meat, but it's expensive, so people are tempted. Once I was in Co-op and I'd stuffed a load of posh hams costing $9 down my coat, but they had fallen out the bottom onto the floor right in front of this old lady. I swear she was not a day younger than 70. She picked them up, gave them back to me and said, 'If you're selling them, I'll meet you outside,' and she bought the lot.

Anyone have any stories similar or related to this?

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Avatar
Armando Perez
Jan 06, 2017
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

apparently this is a thing...

Tons of People Are Stealing Meat from Supermarkets Because It’s So Expensive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0cCVJ_eJeg 

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/12/gretna_meat_thieves_arrested.html

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Brian Rhodes
Jan 06, 2017
IPVMU Certified
(5)
U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified
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Armando Perez
Jan 06, 2017
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

These articles are fascinating...

" a supermarket break-in in Washington state in which a thief allegedly made off with $4,000 worth of meat (and some Hot Pockets)"

 

"the return of cattle rustlers, who have been stealing calves off ranches in places like Texas and Iowa."

 

"...entered the Health and Beauty aisle, where the report said he shoved the meat into his pants."

 

"the report said they ran to the rear of the store to discard the concealed shrimp"

 

and finally... how do you not notice this?

"Scott walked out of a supermarket on the outskirts of Leicester, England, with two joints of beef, 14 packs of chicken breasts, and four beef steaks stuffed into his coat and trousers"

I think Im adding grocery stores to our target verticals.

U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 06, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Problem:

Problem Solved:

XPredator from FLIR

(5)
JH
John Honovich
Jan 06, 2017
IPVM

#1, it's funny because I immediately thought 'Oh this is a FLIR employee' but you are not.

I am curious how much / widely this is being used and how the higher cost of thermal can be justified.

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Avatar
Ari Erenthal
Jan 08, 2017

That's what booster bags are for.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

No, not a typical booster bag, at least.

How does a couple of sheets of aluminum foil stop the convection of heat from the bag?

Maybe line the bag with some aerogel or a heating coil and get out of the store ASAP.

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Ari Erenthal
Jan 08, 2017

Get one of those insulated bags food delivery people use. They seem to do a good job of keeping the cold in and the heat out. At least enough to confuse a security guard. 

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Jon Dillabaugh
Jan 11, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

You need to create a Yeti based Boost Bag! 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jan 09, 2017

Booster Bags are used only to defeat EAS (Anti-Shoplifting) tag technology

Using IR to try and identify meat theft wouldn't / couldn't scale. Most Grocery chains don't even have in store Loss Prevention agents to do live video monitoring

Avatar
Armando Perez
Jan 06, 2017
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Meats expensive. only takes a couple of prime ribs lost to justify it. ;)

 

Side note, I remember I had an arby's client in a previous life that was losing a middle class income every year to the employee theft of whole roast beefs.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 06, 2017
IPVMU Certified

...in a previous life that was losing a middle class income every year to the employee theft of whole roast beefs.

Yes, employees.  In my previous, previous, previous life I worked for Finast as a apprentice meat cutter.  

The meat grinder (yes there is such a person) of the store was caught after several months of making special batches of 'family pack' ground beef made from tenderloin, commonly known as filet mignon.  Which costs $15/lb, as opposed to chuck at around $1/lb.

To make matters worse, he would expose the packages to air for a few hours, which would turn it brown, and cause it to get a markdown to 1/2 or less.  And then his friends would buy it from the reduced case.

Even the FLIR couldn't catch this grift, but maybe this could have...

GC
Greg Cortina
Jan 06, 2017

Years ago we did a covert camera for a luxury grocery store.  They were losing about $20,000.00 a month in the meat department.  The butcher was deep freezing expensive cuts and throwing them away.  He returned later to get them from the trash, still frozen.

My local grocery store caught a guy who had been stealing meat by sliding them between two large bags of dog food.  He would stack them in the cart and leave them.  By accident they caught it and realized he had been doing this for years!

(2)
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Ari Erenthal
Jan 08, 2017

When speccing out jobs for retail locations, I always recommended another camera at the dumpster, and would recommend that the customer switch to clear garbage bags, if they haven't done so already. If the customer has a box flattening/crushing machine, you should also have cameras watching it. A lot of stuff that falls off the backs of trucks leaves the store by way of the trash. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jan 12, 2017

When speccing out jobs for retail locations, I always recommended another camera at the dumpster, and would recommend that the customer switch to clear garbage bags, if they haven't done so already. If the customer has a box flattening/crushing machine, you should also have cameras watching it. A lot of stuff that falls off the backs of trucks leaves the store by way of the trash. 

 

We would go one better and also put contacts on the dumpster. Every time employees opened it it would "bookmark" the time for easy review on their daily report

did same thing with cash office / count rooms & Merchandise lock up cages

U
Undisclosed #6
Jan 10, 2017

Back in the 90s we installed some cameras to catch employees at a steakhouse wrapping up steaks and tossing them in the snow. As the night went on the pick up would show up and grab the bags of food. At a restaurant, stolen meat is a huge loss. However...we caught them!

U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 07, 2017
IPVMU Certified

How not to stop a meat thief:

(5)
JH
John Honovich
Jan 07, 2017
IPVM

I am really surprised the store employee tackled the shoplifter. My understanding was that physical confrontations were not recommended. Any thoughts?

(2)
Avatar
Ari Erenthal
Jan 08, 2017

Rachel Shteir talks about this in her book. Loss prevention used to 'lay hands' a lot in the 70s and 80s, but a wave of lawsuits taught the industry just how dumb an idea that was. Now, loss prevention officers who lay hands are called 'cowboys', as opposed to 'professionals', which are loss prevention officers who have a 'hands off policy'. Generally speaking, the client is the one who will determine if the site has a hands on or hands off policy. Some places, like Macy's, will always have a hands off policy, because they just don't want the liability. It's probably easy to figure out what stores have a hands on policy. Just google "shoplifter injured" or "shoplifter killed" and see what store names keep coming up. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jan 09, 2017

You're correct John. Policy for almost all major retailers is no one except Loss prevention can approach a suspected shoplifter and they are not allowed to physically confront or restrain them unless they are in immediate danger / self protection.  

The potential liability (on both the employee and suspect) far outweighs the recovery of merchandise 

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Jan 07, 2017
IPVM

Feedback from King Rogers on this:

Statutorily, most states’ retail theft laws allow the merchant to confront and detain a shoplifter and hold until the police arrive. It looks to me like that’s what happened in the clip. However, those employees were putting themselves at risk because of the resistance from the subject. And, what was their training in shoplifter observation, confrontation and detention? Apparently, in this case, all was well that ended well. However, generally speaking, if the situation places anyone (employees, customers, the subject him or herself) at risk, the best alternative is to observe and report. This is where video is so helpful: evidence of the theft itself, evidence of the confrontation, evidence of the subject’s flight from the store and make, model and LP of the vehicle used in the crime.

My advice is to properly train employees who will have responsibility to confront and detain shoplifters, make a reasonable effort to detain but do not allow the situation to escalate and create a risk to anyone and notify the police right away.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 07, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Statutorily, most states’ retail theft laws allow the merchant to confront and detain a shoplifter and hold until the police arrive. It looks to me like that’s what happened in the clip. 

Apologies to KR, but that's not what happened in this clip.  

IMHO, while you don't need to wait for someone to leave the store, typically you wait for them to fully conceal the item.  That doesn't seem to have happened here.  

And there was no confrontation, there was just a violent takedown, without giving the shoplifter any time to end the situation peacefully.  He didn't even have time to run.  No one was in danger.

If he had gotten seriously injured, he have a case for damages, IMHO.

(2)
JY
James Yoast
Jan 07, 2017

In California a person has to leave the store to commit a theft.  Just putting an item ones pocket is not theft until they leave the store, or make a run for the door, walk past cash registers, etc...  Since it is a misdemeanor anyways, you place yourself in serious financial jeopardy to do this.  You would be arrested for assault for doing this in most situations.  Just committing a theft does not give a retailer justification to charge you and take you to the ground.  If they attempt to make a legitimate citizens arrest you can use the force necessary to enact the said arrest and no more.  There was no way this would be justified in any situation.  I would immediately terminate any employee of mine who tackled someone for doing this. 

(1)
U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 07, 2017

And thus one of the many problems with our society.

You do wrong, you should be held accountable. Someone sticking meat in their pants is fully intending to commit a crime. The fact that they can't be stopped from it is absurd. 

(2)
JY
James Yoast
Jan 07, 2017

Oh I do agree, my response comes from spending quite a few years running a security shift and 25 +/- guards in a large and quite crazy  facility.  The Cowboy days are over, and a company's employees are putting their employer in a bad position for doing what was shown on the video above.  I was not saying I did not like what this guy got, I just know unless you have a deputy, police officer who might have your back you cant tackle people anymore for offenses like this. 

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 07, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Someone sticking meat in their pants is fully intending to commit a crime. The fact that they can't be stopped from it is absurd.

Sure, but should someone slam someone to to the ground without even saying "stop!" or before they have even shown any sign of fleeing or resisting?  

Had he said anything first, whether the guy tried to run or not, the meat would likely be dropped at once.  Though it might need a repack :)

DL
David Lieberman
Jan 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

In California, it's not stolen until it leaves the store.

You can stuff as much as you want in your clothes, as long as you pay for it on the way out. It's not recommended, of course, and it almost never legitimately happens. In this case, the employee tackled the suspect and then started punching him when (in California) a crime hadn't even been committed. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

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Ari Erenthal
Jan 16, 2017

It's like that in a lot of places, in fact. At minimum, the IAPSC recommends that security officers wait until after the subject passes the last point of sale. 

Most professional loss prevention departments use six steps before attempting to detain a subject. They are:

  1. Observe the customer approach the merchandise
  2. Observe the customer select the merchandise
  3. Observe the customer concealing the merchandise or otherwise carrying it away
  4. Keep the customer under constant and uninterrupted observation
  5. Observe the customer fail to pay for the merchandise
  6. Detain the customer outside the store (if required by state law) or after the customer passes the last point of sale

Following these steps are a good way to avoid getting jammed up on a bad stop. 

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

4. Keep the customer under constant and uninterrupted observation.

This is why thieves often use the rest room after concealing.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jan 08, 2017

My local butcher shop was literally just broken into during the blizzard in the middle of the day. 

U
Undisclosed #4
Jan 08, 2017

where can you unload $5K worth of stolen meat In Ontario, CA?

U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

If there's a blizzard in Ontario, CA, anything's possible :)

(3)
U
Undisclosed #4
Jan 08, 2017

dammit, I need to brush up on my international punctuation  :(

U
Undisclosed #4
Jan 08, 2017

p.s. nobody but a SoCalite would'a noticed that anyway  ;)

(2)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jan 09, 2017

There' are multiple venues to sell stolen meat. I've worked with chains that busted rings who would sell to local restaurants / steak houses at .40 - .60 on the dollar and would buy everything the thieves could bring in

Recently I've seen Steaks for sale on Craig's List and Facebook

U
Undisclosed #6
Jan 10, 2017

The Luxxe Buffet LoL. I miss that place. I just did 2 months of work for a cell carrier in Ontario.

U
Undisclosed #4
Jan 08, 2017
U
Undisclosed #4
Jan 08, 2017

U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

These Girls Like To Steal Meat as well

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jan 09, 2017

I used to sell EAS (ant-shoplifting) systems and Grocers were significant customers for us. Meat, along with HBC products and alcohol were the largest shrink (loss) sections.

We'd conduct pilot tests with the grocers and the results in Meat were usually the first to improve. We'd see gross jump up up 2-4% on average within the first two weeks of going live.

I've personally seen a large, "suspected" female shoplifter wearing a mumu try to waddle out between the antennas with a ham between her legs. When the alarm sounded the ham dropped and hit the ground. She scuttled on out the door. The grocer put the ham back in the meat case (and I couldn't eat Ham for a long time after that) 

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U
Undisclosed #6
Jan 10, 2017

That is a lot of ham for two eggs.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Shoplifter caught with concealed frying pan in pants. 

Accomplice and several pounds of bacon unaccounted for ;)

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David Johnson
Jan 11, 2017

Had a friend in the hotel industry here tell me that he boosted a whole beef tenderloin in the sleeve of his chefs tunic every week.  Security never noticed!

U
Undisclosed #1
Jan 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

a whole beef tenderloin in the sleeve of his chefs tunic...

I think he's concealing one right there ;)

U
Undisclosed #4
Jan 12, 2017

The Stolen Meat is an Ethiopian folk tale.

With a pretty bizarre ending/message if you want to know my take...

Just sayin'...

RD
Roman Dabrowski
Jan 13, 2017

Selling stolen meat has it's issues too. It may have defrosted before being refrozen or went bad and then refrozen to cover. If the thief has no conscience stealing it they will have no conscience selling bad meat.

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