Subscriber Discussion

Searching For PSIM That Would Not Cost An Arm And A Leg

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Anton Miller
Jul 19, 2018
Shaked Projects

There are many such solutions for large (5000+ devices, including sensors, cameras and other related equipment) customers, but not so many for average jobs, you know, 200-300 heterogeneous devices, mostly taken over after failed "great deals" (700 tvl cams in 2018 ffs, but our price seemed unreasonably high... well, surprise - the price only got higher since mwahahahaha)

We are looking for something which has ((at least) some) of following features:

1) Input from sensors, such as magnetic door or PIR sensors. Hopefully, not from only one obscure external board brand

2) Input from OnVIF and RTSP enabled devices, such as DVRs, NVRs, IP cameras, can show live, store and search. Analytics are a bonus

3) Pops-up cameras when sensors are triggered

4) Controls relays

5) Ipnotify

61) Nice premises map with colorful icons

70) Is working once properly installed and configured.

8) Integration with intrusion detection and access control system (I'm dreaming, I know)

 

Is there any such marvel of nature and capitalism?

Avatar
Sean Patton
Jul 19, 2018

What would you normally pay for an arm and leg?

There are VMS or Access Control platforms like S2 Security, Software House or Genetec Security Center (and many more), that can potentially provide functionality you're looking at. You don't necessarily need a PSIM at this point.

However you're still providing pretty broad descriptions like "controls relays", what exactly do you mean by that? You'll need to clarify a lot of those details to get really specific answers.

What systems do you currently sell or support? Many of the larger enterprise PSIM-lite products are sold through closed channels, and you may not be able to be signed up as a dealer depending on the area.

Ultimately it also goes back to cost, you may find any of the products that do what you are asking could be too expensive, but you are looking for a lot of functionality, and critically you said "Is working once properly installed and configured".

Avatar
Anton Miller
Jul 19, 2018
Shaked Projects

An arm and a leg aren't particularly expensive these days, I'm gonna need a kidney for one of those Siemens products, starting at $150k or something.

I'm talking about something midrange, probably about $40-$60 for a video channel (without analytics) license plus few more bucks for dry contact I/O on some external board.

"controls relays" means unlocking doors, turning on/off lights etc. through GUI. For example, a camera detects motion at night, picture pops-up on main screen and the security guard can identify threat, turn on high lights and zoom in PTZ, all from one screen.

Until now we were using relays embedded in DVRs and it worked fine, but now we are looking for a solution to unify input from many heterogeneous devices and provide a nice working area on multiple displays.

And yes, as you rightly noticed many products are only available through authorized dealers, who also happen to be our competitors.

Well, yeah, I want to find that one product that has sufficient functionality, is easy to use, stable and cost within margins set above. Oh, and two unicorns please.

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Robert Shih
Jul 20, 2018
Independent

Since we're talking prices, it can depend on if it's legally or black market.

Gotta love fun facts!

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JH
John Honovich
Jul 19, 2018
IPVM

A UK company, Prysm, used to market a low-cost PSIM. I don't know where they are at today and we have not looked at them in detail but you may want to look at them.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Jul 20, 2018

Prysm, did make it to this report as of 2018. Anything interconnected with SCADA is totally going to geek me out. Now I am out looking for a trial download.

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BC
Bede Cammock-Elliott
Jul 19, 2018

Take a look at Geovision's Central Monitoring Station suite. It has all of the stuff you require

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Sean Patton
Jul 20, 2018

I took a look at this suggestion, and we haven't tested it, and from my real world experience servicing Geovision VMS and Access Control systems I am personally skeptical, but on paper it has many of the features Anton described.

Some of the limitations are going to be on the integration of sensors/intrusion/analytics. It looks like they primarily support their own relay i/o boards, and I couldn't find any intrustion system integrations. 

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Bede Cammock-Elliott
Jul 21, 2018

I guess it depends on what you mean by integration of sensors / intrusion /analytics. We have successfully ‘linked’ intrusion systems with this software to enable setting/unsetting alarm systems etc. We also deliver solutions with sensors directly into Geovision’s IO units to trigger remote video monitoring or various responses. Works well.

I would still recommend this software suite, but again depends on what you mean by integration!

SM
Slava Merculov
Jul 20, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Dear Anton

we are the flexible and adequate company

http://complitech.org/our-products/sentinel-psim

Can you please share your contact and we can find out what is possible and determine all points

Regards

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Anton Miller
Jul 20, 2018
Shaked Projects

support@shakedpro.com

SM
Slava Merculov
Jul 23, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Hello Anton, please suggest if this address is correct

support@shakedpro.com

My mesage was reverted back after attempts to deliver it to your address

Regards

U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

we are the...adequate company

“No one does it more adequately than us!”  :)

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JK
Juri Knjazev
Jul 20, 2018

Have you considered AxxonSoft Intellect system?

Axxon Intellect Enterprise PSIM Software

It complied with your list of requirements and "8) Integration with intrusion detection and access control system (I'm dreaming, I know)" is not a dream, it does that too.

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Anton Miller
Jul 20, 2018
Shaked Projects

Yeah. This is one of solutions that is being considered. However, we do not like their price policy, where cost of license goes higher after 64 channels and the PSIM interface looks like it was designed in 1990s

U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 20, 2018
IPVMU Certified
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Jul 20, 2018

Suggest that alarm inputs/outputs are best handled by either an access control panel or intrusion panel.  Then a VMS system, such as the browser based Perspective by Lensec, which integrates with those panels, can be a low cost solution, with one "face to the customer"

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Jul 20, 2018

Is this new or existing application?

If new, a PSIM is not required. Simply select compatible/integrated VMS, Access Control and intrusion systems and do it very cost effectively. Either the VMS or Access Control user interface can handle the rest. 

If your're trying to get a single user interface to combine multiple disparate VMS, access control and intrusion systems then a PSIM is useful. But it's going to be expensive and who knows how long it'll withstand upgrades without breaking. That's why PSIM is expensive and such a difficult business proposition. 

PSIM developers spend every hour dealing with multiple manufacturers changes and additions to their systems and codes. One change in a system's code can break the whole functionality. If they want to perform true quality assurance, it takes a lot of money for them to stay ahead of the game. 

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Michael Miller
Jul 21, 2018

Have a look at LiveEarth. Very easy to use and they handle the integration for you. 

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

...and they handle the integration for you.

Isn’t that a given for a PSIM? 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jul 21, 2018

You can do a lot of that with most VMS products that support I/O modules. A lot of the popular brands and even budget ones (Kantech/Exacq comes to mind) have that functionality but I don’t think you’ll find it in the sub-$60 price point. 

 

As always, you get what you pay for which technology.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Jul 21, 2018

"You can do a lot of that with most VMS products that support I/O modules."

I agree with this... and don't most all VMSs support I/O modules?

A VMS/AC integration that 'works once properly installed and configured' can even be made more 'PSIM-like' if the AC system has a web interface and the VMS has a URL-based display capability to show web pages (as an example of one kind of URL) right in the VMS client. 

 

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Jul 22, 2018

Don't I/O modules tend to be more expensive than integrating to a panel? 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jul 23, 2018

It looks like the OP is looking to not be married to a single solution - i.e. various ACS/IDS components or platforms in one solution. Typically, I/O modules will be cheaper but some integration between products are free or low cost. Just like every offering, there is rarely a one-size-fits-all product out there.

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Anton Miller
Aug 05, 2018
Shaked Projects

I/O modules are anywhere between $80 and $350 for 6-8 dry contacts

 

RB
Richard Beard
Jul 25, 2018

Please consider KapLogic Corporation's Aegis PSIM Intelligent Integration Software.  We have been developing/selling the product since 2002 to small to enterprise companies (via dealers/integrators).  I welcome the opportunity to discuss with you your needs and the capabilities and price points of Aegis.

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Gerald Becker
Aug 02, 2018
Quanergy Solutions

N3N "Truly Open Visualization Platform For Physical Security" Profile

If you submit for product demo or info request it will be sent to me. Best of luck in your search.

 

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Oleg Kharkin
Dec 04, 2018

Unfortunately in the price ranges you've quoted you will only get second or third best products with no real PSIM functionality. A VMS with some dry contacts integration at it's best. 

As mentioned above, PSIM Designers spend a lot of effort and time to make it all work as you desire, and support lots of different brands simultaneously. A serious PSIM is usually tailor made per specific project or customer.

If you like I can give you some more details on our FORTIS4G System, just for the comparison to understand whether this is the functionality that you are looking for.

 

JH
Jakob Hyldahl
Feb 25, 2020

Hi Anton,

I came across this thread, looking for a PSIM solution that has the same features as you describe.

Can I ask you: Now, one and a half year later, what solution did you end up with?

Thank you

Jakob

JW
Johanna Wünsch
Aug 11, 2020

For anyone reading this up: we are a German PSIM manufacturer that have price models fitting for a variety of different size setups. We are able to go for the really big projects but have different feature and cost models that also fit for small size setups.

If this is of any interest feel free to get in touch with me and see if we have the fitting product for you.

Company name is Advancis. - Product WinGuard.

Cheers, Patrick Geldmacher

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