Tech Support Frustrations

I'm banging my head on my desk here this morning after the latest additions to my email exchange with HIKvision support.

To make me feel better, I'd like to hear some of your *facepalm* support stories. Here's mine:

HIK camera on my test bench, unknown password. HIK's password reset procedure: export an XML file, email to them, await a response with a reset code. (Seriously, does anyone else do anything this ridiculous?)

Me: sends file off to support at 3pm PST last Thursday.

HIK: "Did anyone get back to you?" at 7:30am Friday.

Me: "No."

HIK: "Send a new XML and we'll get it done ASAP."

Me: "I'm not home now, but I'll do it when I am."

Fast forward to Tuesday, because it was a long day Friday and a busy weekend.

Me: Tries to export new XML. SADP errors out. Try it on another machine, same thing. Camera is working, sending picture to the NVR, and I can access the web interface, but not log in.

Me (at 2:30pm yesterday): "Trying this again, but I'm getting a "Failed to get the key" when I try to export in SADP."

HIK (6:40 this morning): "Restart SADP and try again, if your able to log on the camera interface, you change the camera password under user management."

Me (rolls eyes): "Ummmmm... no, I can't change the password under user management. I need to reset the password before I can log in."

HIK: "Send us a new .xml file so we can send you a new code."

*thud thud thud thud thud*

Me: "I can't export the XML file because I'm getting a "Failed to get the key" when I try to export in SADP. I can still access the camera web interface, so it's still up and running. Does nobody read the entire thread before replying with a canned response??"

Like seriously, this is a single email thread complete with all quoted responses... IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE.

Potentially ironic email signature: "Thank you for your continuing support in using Hikvision products." You know what, if there's one thing that will convince me to drop a product line in a hot second, it's lousy tech support. It's a big part of why we don't spec Arecont, or QNAP, or Pelco. Similarly, if you have great support, I'll possibly recommend a product that's not quite as well suited to the task, just to know I have someone backing it up.

I remember in earlier firmwares, there was an online tool you could use to get the HIK password reset code yourself. Anyone know of anything for current versions? This will never fly if it happens on a client's site.

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(3)

Marty Major

Teledyne FLIR

"You know what, if there's one thing that will convince me to drop a product line in a hot second, it's lousy tech support. It's a big part of why we don't spec Arecont, or QNAP, or Pelco. Similarly, if you have great support, I'll possibly recommend a product that's not quite as well suited to the task, just to know I have someone backing it up."

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Matt Ion

In reply to Marty Major

The expressions at the end seem to sum up the replies I'm getting.

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Matt Ion

It's one of those weeks... having a similar frustration with TeamViewer, with canned responses and people not bothering to read beyond the first three words of a support question....

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Matt Transue

I have that problem quite a bit with one of our main (ugh) manufacturers that we sell (cough) and support (bleh).

Very few people today can actually read between the lines. They take what they see at face value and don't even consider another avenue.

I honestly don't think that's a skill that can be taught. They either give a shit or they don't. When they don't, you get garbage like you described above.

There are days where I wonder how people can 'life' in general.

I feel your pain brother.

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Undisclosed #1

"They either give a shit or they don't."

THIS is the gold, brother....

ALL manufacturers posture about 'partnering' with their VARs..... few actually back that up with quality programs (and effort) from post-sales (field engineering) and support teams who actually give a shit.

the efforts of all other departments - including all the suits in sales and the C-suite - are magnified through the prism of the support and field engineering teams. Either you can make work what sales says you can - or you can't.

And any customer will expect some imperfection... it's what you do as an integrator/distributor/manufacturer when something goes sideways (as it always will) that shows which companies know what 'partner' actually means.

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Josh Hendricks

Milestone Systems

Agreed. Though I think more often than not it has more to do with not possessing an analytical mind. I've interacted with a lot of customer service/technical support professionals who clearly cared, but just didn't "get it".

As you mentioned, this is a skill that is difficult if not impossible to teach. When it comes to hiring I try to uncover evidence of that analytical mind. If they have it, the rest can be taught (product/IT knowledge) IMO.

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Undisclosed #1

In reply to Josh Hendricks

"As you mentioned, this is a skill that is difficult if not impossible to teach. When it comes to hiring I try to uncover evidence of that analytical mind. If they have it, the rest can be taught (product/IT knowledge) IMO."

This is SO right, it deserved more than just a simple Agree

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Matt Ion

You know who has GREAT support? Axis. I can usually get a response to a helpdesk case or a webchat within 5 minutes. I've even stumped a couple techs who took on my questions as personal missions to find an answer, and get back to me with it, even if it took months.

3xLogic. I send a helpdesk request, and half the time it goes straight to second tier, because they READ it and realize I've already done all that first-tier stuff, and I know what I'm talking about, so they don't stick with batting around the template questions first. They also know I've been working with Vigil systems longer than half their support guys and even some engineers.

Enhance Tech. The few times I needed to call them, my cases ended up with an engineer, to the point he just gave me his direct line. When I had a power supply fail in a RAID, he authorized me to simply replace it on site (standard ATX) without voiding the warranty. When I have a 40-pound 3U rackmount box that's had an issue six months in... I don't want to box it up and ship it across the border for warranty work just to find out the PSU had a blown internal fuse (yes, that's all it was - it's been running solid for years now since I replaced that).

They say a happy customer will tell ten friends, an unhappy customer will tell a hundred. I think the success stories need more play. But I'm not above putting someone on blast when they're exceptionally frustrating.

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Undisclosed Integrator #2

Try calling Hikvision, I forgot a password, and called their tech support line. I got it resolved within 15 minutes.

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Matt Ion

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

I called their tech support once... sat on hold 20 minutes before getting cut off. When I finally got ahold of someone, he was very helpful and got me sorted out, but it was like pulling teeth to get a human on the line.

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Michael Miller

It seems like Hikvision's support doesn't communicate very well internally. We had a Hikvision camera that a customer was trying to connect to Avigilon but it had the wrong firmware on it. We tried to download the firmware that the other cameras were using but the install would fall every time. One of my techs spoke with support and got conflicting info as one would say we could downgrade firmware and the other said we couldn't.

We wound up figuring this out on our own by upgrading to a newer firmware which then allowed us then downgrade to the older firmware.

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Matt Ion

"For service in English, please press 9."

*presses 9*

"At the end of this message, please press 2 to speak to our Montreal support..."

*waits, then presses 2*

*gets long rambling message in French, then crappy generic hold music*

So... has anyone come up with a new third-party method to generate a reset code for these cameras? Or should I just pull it down and shitcan it? Because it doesn't seem I'll ever get the password reset...

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Matt Transue

You've probably spent 3 times the cost of a new camera in your time, not to mention the minutes of your life you'll never get back.

I say shitcan it and move on...but then they double-win when you gotta buy a new one.

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Matt Ion

Well the one bonus there is that it's one of my home cameras, so at least it's not billable time lost... but it's taught me a valuable lesson for if I ever run into this on a client site: 30/30/30 and move on.

Then again, I'm paid hourly, so if this WAS on a client site, I'd have been on the clock for all of this.

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Undisclosed Distributor #4

Unfortunately this is what a lot of these manufacturers use as a strategy for dealing with warranty support issues. They wish nothing more than for you to become so frustrated that you throw it away and buy another. At that point they have won, they've gotten another sale (if you decide to buy their product again) and they don't have to deal with warranty support. This is such a garbage way of doing business that it infuriates me, but unfortunately this is the mentality of the manufacturers we've been forced to deal with and until we hold their feet to the fire and show that we won't just go away they will continue to do it.

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Matt Ion

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

*sigh* if only their support line didn't have banker's hours....

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Undisclosed #3

Before all this started did you try to log in with admin/admin?

/teehee

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Matt Ion

In reply to Undisclosed #3

HIK cameras have never defaulted to admin/admin. They were admin/12345 before they started enforcing the startup password creation.

And yes, I tried admin/12345.

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Matt Ion

FINALLY. After 42 minutes on the phone (the first 15 on hold), it's resolved.

The HIK tech never actually figured out why it doesn't work from my laptop or desktop machines (despite my having successfully exported from my laptop last week), but I did try it from my Vigil NVR, and THAT worked.

Learned another thing that I've never seen documented anywhere: you can perform a full hard reset on a HIK camera using a 30/30/30 procedure with the internal reset button: with the camera powered, hold the button for 30 seconds; then while still holding the button, remove the power; after another 30 seconds, restore power, and continue holding the button for 30 more seconds (button will be pressed for a solid 90 seconds).

I've had to do this on routers a couple times... never realized cameras worked with it as well. He was about to have me do that (up a 12 foot ladder in -10C) but I got the export to work from the Vigil before it came to that.

Anyway, there you go. For future reference, 30/30/30 factory reset is substantially faster and easier than going through HIK's password reset.

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John Scanlan

•Jan 16, 2017

IPVM • IPVMU Certified

Matt - thanks for sharing. The 90 second time can be reduced to 20 seconds, or 10 seconds. We tested the 30/30/30 on a couple of Hikvision cameras here, a 2542 and a 4585. It worked on both, but we also found that only part of the procedure they recommend is needed.

2542: with the camera powered off depress the reset button, connect PoE, after 10 seconds release reset button.

4585: with the camera powered off depress the reset button, connect PoE, after 20 seconds release reset button.

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Matt Ion

•Jan 17, 2017

In reply to John Scanlan

Thanks John, I'll try that on a 2132 when I get the chance.

It's actually similar with routers - most have varying different reset procedures that may cause a partial or full factory reset, sometimes depending on the firmware or specific hardware build, but 30/30/30 seems to be common to almost all of them.

The frustrating part is that this doesn't seem to be documented anywhere; the Hik tech revealed it to me only as a last resort when he couldn't figure out why the SADP XML export wouldn't work.

Unless Hik support is going to offer fast, 24/7 response to password reset requests, this info should be in the damn manual. Having an NVR or camera lock me out at 6pm on a Friday during an emergency call to a client's site, is just not acceptable if I'm going to have to wait until Monday morning to regain access.

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Undisclosed #5

•Jan 16, 2017

IPVMU Certified