Subscriber Discussion

Ripping Out Lenel For Keyscan - Any Caveats?

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Barry Cyr
Jan 25, 2017

We are making the switch from Lenel OnGuard integrated with Honeywell Total Connect to Keyscan.

This is being done primarily in an effort to never have to have Stanley Security back in our building.

Total Connect is not a bad system and overall has been reliable. the problem is, as you know, that it is proprietary and only Lenel dealers (Stanley in our case) can work on it and nothing integrates with it. So we decided to bite the bullet and swap out the panel as part of our building expansion. I did not want to have to add another Lenel panel.

So I submit to the group - what do I need to be concerned about with this swap?

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Brian Rhodes
Jan 25, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Hello:

Just to be clear - do you have an info link to Lenel Total Connect?

There are plenty of resources regarding Honeywell's Total Connect (our profile post as example), and I am not familiar with a Lenel offering.

Lenel's access system is Lenel OnGuard.  Is that what you're recalling?

Also, our Keyscan Access Control Company Profile might help others unfamiliar.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 25, 2017

Let me correct myself... Honeywell's total connect is used to remote monitor the system. The Lenel panel uses the onguard platform.

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Brian Rhodes
Jan 25, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Got it.  Thanks.  So if you're ripping out panels, does that mean you're also replacing access control too?

Just want to be sure since the topic title specifically mentioned 'Burg' panels, but not access.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 25, 2017

Access control will be through Keyscan as well. I guess I tend to lump it all in the description of "burg panel" as a shorthand, but not really accurate when looking for help or advice. :-)

The only thing that will remain is the card readers and interconnecting wiring.

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Brian Rhodes
Jan 25, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Thanks.  One last question, if you don't mind:

If you could boot your existing integrator, but keep Lenel and Total Connect, would it be considered?  Or are things set to make a wholesale change at this point?

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Barry Cyr
Jan 25, 2017

I have a quote but no money has changed hands yet. I am told that no other manufacturer will integrate with Lenel so When I need to add that 9th door controller, I will need to use another Lenel board. 

CW
Craig Wilson
Jan 25, 2017

Just a side note, depending on how your lenel system is configured (modules at doors vs modules in the can) you may want to look very closely at how your system is wired. We did a lenel takeover with software house as it was the only system in our arsenal that had modules that could do a mixed system at the door and cans like the lenel system was without major rewiring. 

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Barry Cyr
Jan 25, 2017

We currently have modules in the can. 

MJ
Marcus Johnson
Jan 25, 2017

Card Readers and Credentials need to be compatible with the Keyscan Panels. Only specific formats are supported. Otherwise all existing credentials will need to be scanned into the system with an enrolment reader.

Caveats:

Very solid platform - Aurora platform is feature rich; notably is the multi credential and user centered management.

Integration: Various integration modules are available that facilitate integration with burglar and surveillance systems. Burglar Alarm integration is simple and straight forward. I have no first hand experience with the surveillance system integration know it is available.

Food for thought:

Overall the Keyscan Aurora platform is an excellent product. Performance is solid and reliable. Technical support is excellent and 99 percent of the time resolve any issue immediately. The system is best as a stand alone unmonitored platform. Manage users, run reports, adjust schedules etc. The interface when used at a guard position or control center leaves much to be desired. Things become clustered, and overall non intuitive.

I highly recommend having a partner provide a demo of the platform. Additionally FYI there are many youtube videos covering installation, configuration and operation that provide an idea of what to expect from the platform.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 25, 2017

Thanks! I believe we should be able to integrate with Total Connect, yes?

The building next to ours uses The Keyscan Aurora platform. The manager there showed me their system and a rundown of it's abilities.

Can this be hosted remotely as well as locally on my servers? 

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Tyler Blake
Jan 26, 2017
BCI Integrated Solutions

I will echo what the other integrator who posted below said. You do not need to rip out the Lenel panels. You can even add-on to your existing system and save yourself tens of thousands of dollars in a complete forklift. All you need is new software at the head end.

Since you currently are using total connect, have you looked at Honeywell Pro-watch? That should integrate with your intrusion panels and you can use your existing Lenel hardware. All you need is a software swap. 

You have the option of using any of the software on this list without having to throw away all of your hardware that you have already paid for. 

http://www.mercury-security.com/partners.html

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Barry Cyr
Jan 26, 2017

Thank you! I wonder though, will I be able to add more door controllers using this method? My initial perception (I was led to believe) is that the circuit boards were the proprietary part of the Lenel system. In reading articles here on IPVM, it seems they boards are standard and the software is the proprietary part of the Lenel package. We have an 8 reader module now and I expect to add 4-5 more this spring. I would get another 8 reader module to allow for additional expansion. Are the boards readily available?

U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 26, 2017

Lenel OnGuard does not use proprietary boards. They can be used on any Mercury-supported access control system, assuming the boards are not exceedingly old. For example, if you have LNL-500's or LNL-2000's, you may have issues. If you're using LNL-2220 or LNL-3300 controllers with LNL-1320 reader boards, it will work on virtually any Mercury-based system. 

Lenel uses 2-reader interfaces, so you'd need to add four 2-reader interfaces to get 8 additional boards, assuming they will be attached to an existing controller. If not being attached to an existing controller, you'd need a LNL-2220 and three LNL-1320s, or a LNL-3300 and four LNL-1320s.

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Brian Rhodes
Jan 26, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Our Axis vs HID vs Mercury Access Controllers post includes a chart at-a-glance that shows which platforms use Mercury hardware.

Beyond those mentioned, the platforms using Mercury will interoperate, although specific functions may not be universally supported by all parties.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 27, 2017

Looking at the chart, I would consider Genetec simply because they seem to be compatible accross the board. Does anyone here have experience pro/con with them?

We use HID/Wiegand prox cards. Does it hold true that it if the platform is compatible then the cards and readers also are compatible?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 26, 2017

Barry,

If it's not too late with all due respect instead of Keyscan (requires all new hardware/panels) I would look at installing Avigilon ACM, RS2, Genetec, or Open Options so you can re use your existing Mercury panels and just flash the boards and do a software only swap. This would save thousands in hardware costs.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 26, 2017

This. It makes no sense whatsoever to rip out Mercury boards to install a proprietary hardware. If you're unhappy with Lenel, reuse the existing equipment and swap the software. 

I would recommend looking at S2 as an option (not RS2, but S2 Security). In my opinion it's a vastly superior system to any of the other Mercury options out there.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 26, 2017

Thanks to all of you! I will be looking into the software swap. I think I was sold a bag of goods by someone who either doesn't know or wants to make extra money. I will continue my research.

Now - there seems to be some difference of opinion with regards to RS2 and S2 Security between undisclosed integrators 1 & 2. Any other opinions out there?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 26, 2017

Barry, to be clear S2 is my favorite access control system even though I did not mention them in my post above. The only reason I didn't mention them in the Mercury board swap earlier is that I had a horror story happen to me while trying to install mercury boards on a S2 system and couldn't get card formats to work. To be fair, it was because it was a multi-site enterprise client and there were too many different card formats/facility codes being used. If you have only 1 location and a limited # of facility codes you should be OK to re-use your Mercury panels with S2.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 26, 2017

Excellent! I've reached out to them this morning to get more information.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jan 26, 2017

The problem with S2 you are going to run into is they can use Mercury panels but they themselves sell proprietary panels.You should really be sticking to the manufacturers that sell Mercury and probably those in the platinum elite other than Lenel. (Avigilon / RS2 / Honeywell / Softwarehouse) since you want to add-on down the road. If you do not do integrated video end to end go with RS2. It's going to be the most bang for your buck and probably least expensive option. If you want integrated with the same manufacturer go Honeywell or Avigilon.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jan 26, 2017

Disclosure: We deal Honeywell, Avigilon, Lenel, RS2, S2

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Barry Cyr
Jan 26, 2017

I've reached out to RS2. It sounds good and I like that they are based in state. We'll see what they have to say. One more thing - Even though we are not f=integrated with access control and video, I wouldn't mind looking into that possibility. You indicate that RS2 might not be the solution for that. How about the others you mention? 

U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 26, 2017

This is a known issue that occurs when you're using S2 boards and then introduce Mercury. You effectively have to recreate your card formats on the Mercury boards because they handle cards differently than the S2 panels. Not better or worse, necessarily, just different.

In a straight software swap, there should be no issue with this as the card formats would only be created for the Mercury portion of the system.

Regarding the question about integration options with video, S2 has some great integration options, depending on your video platform. 

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Barry Cyr
Jan 26, 2017

Using Geovision

U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 26, 2017

I'm not aware of many (any?) mainstream access control systems that integrate with Geovision. But, if you were open to change there, you have some options -- Avigilon, ExacqVision, Milestone, OnSSI, Salient, Video Insight.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jan 26, 2017

Your cheapest option is going to be to buy the Hikvision DVR integration and then buy a Hikvision recorder and voila you have integrated video.

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Barry Cyr
Jan 27, 2017

I also like the information I read on NLSS. Anybody else have input?

I have been reading about Genetec and I am turned off by what I read about their tech support. That is the reason I am switching from Lenel. 

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