Should Manufacturers, Like Avigilon, Talk About Budgets/Quotes/Cost And Set Expectations With End Users Before An Integrator Is Involved?

That is why you need to be all in with a sales and marketing team, inside and outside tech support and not have to rely on a manufacturer to get the business stirred up for you.  I feel their major importance to us is to build quality low cost products that we can market and we can take it from there.  I couldn't imagine an Avigilon RSM spending the countless hours working on budgets and walk throughs with a school like we do.  I personally don't think that is their purpose. Our goal is to always drive the business so the other issues don't arise; such as other dealers being brought in. We tend to deal with other dealers enough when the RFP hits the street. Be consistent and be knowledgeable on whatever product you sell and you will always win in the end... 

I would have absolutely no issue with any manufacturer talking MSRP pricing with an end-user, as long as the only discussion is about equipment and high-level pricing for installation. Heck, I've provided my customers MSRP quotes from manufacturers before just to show them what it looks like. 

The only issue I would have is if a manufacturer were giving firm pricing or budgetary numbers on installation. Manufacturers should never, ever be doing that. If you want to say "installation can range from X to Y per device", that's fine, as long as the numbers are reasonable, but even if a manufacturer thinks they know, they still shouldn't be quoting it.

Mr. Mason, you say you couldn't imagine an Avigilon RSM putting together budgets, or spending countless hours etc. but they do (I know for a fact - have witnessed it, have experienced it and reaped both the benefits and negatives aspects of it) and I do believe that this is what they are told by senior leadership within Avigilon is their purpose.  As you have stated and others and in which I agree, it is our job to drive business, have sales people and meet with customer's but in my opinion, Avigilon doesn't place a similar value on the integrator as the others.  This is a trend, manufacturers getting closer and closer to our customer, they are very good at it.

Manufacturers should never discuss anything that they are not directly offering. Their established role in the current industry is to create demand for their products and deliver to potential end users qualified companies that represent their products.

Anything other than MSRP budgeting is problematic. As an Integrator, I would never accept a working relationship with a manufacturer that went over that line.

Any manufacturer, specifically VMS reps, that attempt to estimate installation charges or attempt to tell you how to run your company as it relates to pricing needs to be identified and removed from your line card.

This access control industry started with Direct Sales and electrical contracting. It didn't work so well as they grew and they all moved to independent dealer channels in the late 1980's. Some companies have attempted to go that way in the past and have been negatively rewarded handsomely. 

If the private integration channel has any collective self respect or concern for their long-term existence as an enterprise, they should FIRE that manufacturer regardless of who they are. If you are important to them they will listen to that message, if not at least you know you aren't important to them and no longer have to buy their BS.