Subscriber Discussion

Should Axis Share Image Of Accused Camera Thief?

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Brian Karas
Sep 15, 2016
IPVM

According to a post on LinkedIn, an ASIS 2016 attendee stole a camera from the Axis booth. Unsurprisingly, this was caught on camera. Somewhat surprisingly, Axis released an image of this person on LinkedIn. While mugshots of suspects are often released to the public it seems like Axis is using this incident more to promote their gear than catch an alleged thief.

What does everyone think about this?

Text from photo:

True story: Earlier this week at ASIS (a security tradeshow in Orlando), we had a small AXIS camera disappear from our booth Monday evening. As the leader in ip video surveillance, it was easy to leverage our AXIS Companion demo in the booth and figure out what happened. At about 4:45pm after the show had ended for the day, this attendee picked up a camera on display and walked out of our booth. Not the smartest thing to do at a security show! The new AXIS Companion Eye LVE camera (along with the Recorder) provided great video evidence to give to the authorities.

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Max Scott
Sep 15, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I recommend bolting cameras to hard surfaces at least 6-8' up. That seems to help

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U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 15, 2016
IPVMU Certified

While mugshots of suspects are often released to the public it seems like Axis is using this incident more to promote their gear than catch an alleged thief.

Another "alleged" trade show thief caught on camera.

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Brian Karas
Sep 15, 2016
IPVM

I think that one turned out to be fake, I asked Axis if this incident was actually real and they say it is.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 15, 2016
IPVMU Certified

yes, it was an alleged alleged thief.

U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 15, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Is the picture really worth bragging about? It seems dark with poor dynamic range.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Sep 15, 2016

If this was a robbery at a liquir store and the police had not apprehended the suspect yet, would you see the video on the local news asking for "your help" in catching this person? So, yeah, its fair game when someone steals something, and this place couldn't be more clearly marked to say that they're recording cameras.

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JH
John Honovich
Sep 15, 2016
IPVM

2, does it matter whether the police release it vs a private corporation / individual?

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Marty Major
Sep 15, 2016
Teledyne FLIR

no.

many individual companies release surveillance video of people who do bad things in their joints - why shouldn't Axis be able to do the same?

btw, for those of you who voted 'no - it's crossing a line'.... please define what 'line' you are referring to?

and please.... no analytics jokes. thanks.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Sep 16, 2016

The line crossed is the self-serving nature of their superlative-laden commentary regarding their product and position in the marketplace. That makes it different than the bar or gas station who may post video of the same incident.

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Marty Major
Sep 17, 2016
Teledyne FLIR

I can agree that the motivations are not the same... and BRK surmises as much in his OP:

"...it seems like Axis is using this incident more to promote their gear than catch an alleged thief."

So it's an advertorial vs any kind of real plea for assistance in identification... but why does this 'cross a line'?

Ads are generally self-serving by their nature... and lots of them are laden with superlative commentary.

Also, back in 2010 laptops were stolen from the Moog booth by the cleaning crew after the 1st day of the ASIS show - and were recorded by Axis cameras in the neighboring Milestone booth. Milestone put out a press release about it and even hosted the video on their own website (both the press release and the video link are now gone - but they are both referenced here and here.

I think this type of scenario (people stealing stuff from security show floors) is ideally suited for security vendors to tout the effectiveness of their products if and when they capture footage of the incident.

i.e. - I don't get the beef about crossing a line....

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Sep 16, 2016

Speaking of releasing pics/videos of suspects reminded me of my favorite:

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Jon Dillabaugh
Sep 16, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Why not post it? Unless they are unsure about the theft, there isn't any onus on Axis to protect the criminal. Can't do the time, don't do the crime!

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Sep 16, 2016

Personally if I employed this person I would appreciate knowing that he was a thief. Our industry is security and we must always be looked upon as being trustworthy. As far as I'm concerned, I would want to know who he was if nothing more than to make sure I never hire him.

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TA
Toni Alvarez
Sep 16, 2016

great Axis promo...

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Ryan Hulse
Sep 16, 2016

I would say the victim of a crime does not have any responsibility to portray the perpetrator as "innocent until proven guilty". Now, if it turns out the guy is innocent, he would have grounds for a good civil case, which against a large corporation could be very lucrative.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 16, 2016
IPVMU Certified

So much for the deterrence value of security cameras...

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Sep 16, 2016

2 Points:

1. This guy was an authorized attendee there 15 minutes after the show ended.

2. In the past, Axis has handed out cameras to attendees like most manufacturers would hand out a squishy ball.

What happens when this is a consultant, or customer, that was handed a free camera last year and just mistakenly and honestly picked one up thinking it was a giveaway? Clearly it wasn't attached to anything.

Also, that camera is not displaying a usable image. It's a 20x20 booth, if they can't zoom in on the face and really embarrass the individual and ruin his career at the same time, the camera isn't worthwhile.

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Ryan Hulse
Sep 16, 2016

I have seen cameras given out for attending training, and cameras given away as prizes, but I've never seen Axis (or anyone) just put a stack of cameras in the booth and give them away like stress balls.

The Axis booth is much larger than 20x20, however the camera-to-subject distance looks roughly 20ft to me.

It's not possible to say how useful the camera is from looking at a 600 pixel embedded image from a twitter post of a screenshot of an export from the camera.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Sep 16, 2016

I can see the outside edges of the booth and 100% of the carpet that Axis paid for. A digital zoom on the individual before posting would have been prudent. At 20 feet any camera manufacturer can pick up far more detail, on the individual, with only 1x digital.

Didn't say the cameras were stacked, just left behind. See all those cabinets in the picture...a "good customer", in years past, used to be able to be handed a camera. They didn't just go to anyone that walked in the booth, but employees could get their hands on them. Cameras were just a little better quality than a webcam, but not a bad giveaway.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Sep 16, 2016

This happened at a Simplex event a few years ago and the guy stole a phone. When the police asked if there was a description, several manufacturers provided thumb drives with essentially passport quality photos and the actual theft. My family is in law enforcement and often say "jail is full of stupid people"

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John Bredehoft
Sep 19, 2016
Bredemarket / Incode Technologies

For those who didn't read the detail in the LinkedIn post, Axis DIDN'T publicly share the image of the accused camera thief. See Chay's response to Paul Bakhtegan. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/activities/larry-chay+0_3De19XamSlXAOYpRrltMxU?trk=prof-0-sb-rcnt-act-link

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Brian Karas
Sep 19, 2016
IPVM

They posted a large image snapshot from the video. The exposure of the image makes it difficult to clearly ID the person, but they did not do anything to hide or obscure the persons face.

His response also reads as if he did not share the video because it was cumbersome to do so, not out of any concern for privacy.

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Ernesto Pulido
Sep 28, 2016

I believe it comes down to liability. The "alleged" thief may file suit and Axis may be held liable if it turned out he didn't steal anything and falsely accused him without the proper channels.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

The "alleged" thief may file suit and Axis may be held liable if it turned out he didn't steal anything and falsely accused him without the proper channels.

That is the risk; the implication from Axis therefore is that the video is so unimpeachable that they feel that can't possibly happen.

And if Axis is willing to trust its own products, so should everyone ;)

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