Should Avigilon / Manufacturers Include More Mounting Brackets?

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Here's a Twitter exchange with an Avigilon Dealer asking the company to stop shipping generally unused mounting brackets on bullet cameras:

The H4 bullets are designed to mount directly onto electrical junction boxes. The bracket adapts the camera and allows it to be directly attached to a wall or flat surface instead.

Do you think Avigilon is wise by sending this bracket by default, or are they just sending more junk that dealers need to dispose of?

U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

No, it sounds like they send enough as it is.

Avatar
Brian Karas
Oct 26, 2016
IPVM

Most people expect cameras to come out of the box with the ability for at least a basic mounting ability (we got hammered for this at VideoIQ, you HAD to buy a separate bracket to mount the dome cameras).

Avigilon is including a cheap injection-molded part to make the camera minimally functional, it's cheaper than paying order-entry people to double check that every single PO includes the right number of mounts.

I think the practical options are:
  1. Include a basic bracket
  2. Include NO bracket
  3. Include the bracket AND the more expensive ($90 MSRP) custom J-box
Of these, option 1 (the one they went with) reduces possibility for complaints and confusion at the lowest possible cost.
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U
Undisclosed #2
Oct 26, 2016

I am more curious why the Avigilon social media team didn't use this opportunity (a dealer with a comment about their product) to do the exact same thing that the IPVM team did here based on that twitter comment - engage in discussion about the merits of Paul's position in his tweet from Griffon?

"Thanks for your input' is not very engaging (nor encouraging to others who might wish to engage with you).

imo, it is only slightly preferable to being completely ignored.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Oct 26, 2016

.....why the Avigilon social media team didn't use this opportunity....

Likely because most Security social media teams are incompetent about their products, solutions, and applications. While they may have mad social media skills, they often have no context relative to what they are hawking.

U
Undisclosed #2
Oct 26, 2016

I think it is the opposite of what you surmise. 'mad' social media skills? please.

I think they know/understand their own products well enough - but they lack any real understanding of how to use this new medium to engage with their own customers without just adding it as a channel of their broadcast media. i.e. they use social media as simply another arm of their advertising (broadcast) efforts.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Oct 26, 2016

I am an Avigilon dealer and I agree that it is simply being used for broadcast marketing. Unfortunately "social media experts" are generally not the most knowledgeable people on their product and are not the most engaged employees to begin with. There are many examples of these entry level employees at corporations making horrible mistakes when doing anything other than retweeting, placating, or broadcasting boiler plate tweets about news. Avigilon is far from alone in this oversight.

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MM
Michael Miller
Oct 26, 2016

The H4 bullets are designed to mount directly onto electrical junction boxes. The bracket adapts the camera and allows it to be directly attached to a wall or flat surface instead.

This is incorrect info. The H4 Bullet cameras can NOT mount to the wall without the included bracket (or the back box) which has hooks to hold the camera while you make the connections. The included bracket is very shallow and does not allow space for cables so if your mounting to a brick wall you need the back-box.

The H3 bullet cameras do not need a bracket or back-box to mount directly to the wall.

Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

What was incorrect?

MM
Michael Miller
Oct 26, 2016

The H4 bullets are designed to mount directly onto electrical junction boxes.

When you say "electrical junction boxes" I think single gang or double gang box. This is not the case. Without the included bracket or extra back box you can't mount the camera.

Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Got it, so the bracket adapts mounting to standard jboxes if the custom back boxes aren't used?

MM
Michael Miller
Oct 26, 2016

No... the included bracket allows you to mount directly to the wall IF you can push the cable into the wall. They have hooks on the camera which allow you to mount the bracket and then hook the camera onto the bracket so you don't have to hold the camera while drilling holes or connecting cabling.

Avatar
Brian Karas
Oct 26, 2016
IPVM

The H3 bullet cameras do not need a bracket or back-box to mount directly to the wall.

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MM
Michael Miller
Oct 26, 2016

Yup which is the same with the H4 with the included bracket.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Oct 27, 2016

In my earlier days we had a similar situation with a manufacturer. We had to agree to take back unused items in bulk to make an environmentally friendly customer happy, or lose him. What we did with them when he shipped them back in bulk.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Oct 27, 2016

This is a very timely topic.

I had a discussion with them today about how frustrating their mounting options are. The fact that they have two entirely separate part numbers for a surface-mounted camera and a pendant/wall-mounted camera is one of the more infuriating things in the IP camera world as far as I'm concerned.

I understand that the reasoning behind it is to make the camera look as good as possible, and that is respectable. The reality is, this can be accomplished with totally separating the two options, and basically make it impossible to use a camera without a mount (as is noted by the VideoIQ statement about). I know they aren't the only ones that do it, but it doesn't make it any less infuriating.

Ship the same camera with the option to attach the pendant or wall mount to the camera via a bolt-on item to a surface-mount camera, but stop making cameras that require a mount to be useful.

Rant over.

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Avatar
Paul Grefenstette
Nov 29, 2016

Brian,

That was my tweet - we use the additional jbox on every job as we install these bullets outside on brick or concrete or tin siding on warehouses, etc and that piece that is sent by default has to be taken off to install the jbox and I would guess the majority of other installers do the same so why not charge a bit more and give us the larger jbox from the start

always looking to streamline things and just wanted to let Avigilon know and I think it's good just to give public feedback from time to time

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