Subscriber Discussion

My Client's DVR Was Stolen By Thieves, What Can Be Done?

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EDWIN KHETHIWE
Aug 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Please assist me here.

I have a client who was recently attacked by thieves at her place. As the thieves realised that they have been recorded the stole the DVR to destroy evidence. Now she felt CCTV didn't serve her any purpose.

How can i address such problems in future? What are your suggestions?

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Most new DVR/NVRs have some sort of option to connect to a cloud recording service. If the main reason is to provide footage in the case of an rare, unfortunate incident you could save some money by having a short retention time.

Also, most newer network cameras have a SD card slot and can record locally as well. Sure, theives can take the cameras too, but I doubt many are that savvy. If it's a well mounted vandal proof dome it might take longer than most theives are interested in spending.

If the client is adverse to network cameras and/or paying recurring cloud storage fee, there's always the decoy DVR option, see What The? A Dummy DVR?

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UD
Undisclosed Distributor #2
Aug 28, 2016

Maybe if existing DVR supports, ftp uploading (back up) and e-mailing in case of (high treshold) motion detection can be used. So that, even the DVR is stolen or destroyed, at least until that moment some evidence could be already sent over the network and e-mail to somewhere else.

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Marc Pichaud
Aug 28, 2016

Physically protect electrical outlets, network and recorder are the first rule in that job..

If you can't hire a man with a gun, you might send external pre alarm pictures by FTP or email - if your system can do it. IP NVR are more adapted to that that most firts price DVRs..

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 28, 2016

Depending on the business, I will often have the client "hide" the real DVR and place a "phony" one in plain sight. This can be the clients old DVR minus the hard drive or a really inexpensive one that I can plug in to make it look like its the real thing.

As others have said, perhaps the cloud is a good backup plan as well.

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John Bazyk
Aug 28, 2016
Command Corporation • IPVMU Certified

We offer a product from DMP that records all alarm events in the cloud and 24/7 on the local NVR. We've had similar issues and it's a way to keep things redundant. If they're surveillance system is bigger than 8 cameras we will install a different surveillance system plus one or two cameras that record to the cloud.

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Marc Pichaud
Aug 28, 2016

"To the cloud" depends locally from your upload bandwidth on Dsl (<1 Mbit/s.) . most of the time low, so you will send only low res pictures (few Fps, lower resolution) and video before they kill your camera one by one. Any how it's a backup solution. Other solution is : with IP you can hide your NAS in an unexpected locked place. They might find the Video server , they will not find the Recorder with the storage...

MB
Matt Bischof
Aug 28, 2016

Wow Edwin, there's just nothing worse, is there? This is about as bad as finding out a hard drive has failed the very moment you have an incident you need to retrieve.

While I'm the first to say that ftp and/or cloud recording is by far the best option, sometimes the bandwidth isn't available from your local internet service providers such that these solutions become feasible. However, plenty of NVRs these days have the ability to record channels of video from like branded DVRs, in other words, if you have a Brand X DVR, you can often purchase a Brand X NVR, hide it, and record channels redundantly across a small parallel LAN or even a crossover cable. This solution will be the most stable, and although has some greater upfront cost, has no recurring cost like other subscription-based cloud services. So too, you could rely upon a remote DAS device, but the question becomes whether or not the DVR/NVR you're using is storing recorded video immediately to that storage device, or on a scheduled basis. Same issue with cloud storage-- is the video being written realtime or scheduled, and if so, what about buffering, etc? There is also the concern with a traditional NAS or DAS as to what happens when video (data) is in the middle of being written and a network connection drops-- is the video (data) corrupt and unusable? This is why I like using two like-branded devices, a DVR & NVR directly connected, or an NVR and NVR directly connected; put one device on a rack or shelf where it would normally be placed, then hide the other device somewhere else-- the devices will archive in realtime, and you're less likely to miss something in the event one machine is damaged or stolen.

There's always lock and key solutions, too. I have a handful of ventilated Middle Atlantic lock boxes I've used or recommended in the past which both protect the recorder from the elements and theft/damage, and while they CAN be costly, they generally get the job done. Another option... I have an integrator now who will open every DVR/NVR he installs, drills around four holes in the bottom of the chassis if it isn't being rack-mounted, and uses lag bolts to attach the DVR/NVR to its intended installation surface, whether that be a wall, countertop, or ceiling. He then uses tamper-proof screws to close the DVR/NVR chassis up. While this all seems rather crude, it makes theft a lot more involved, and as history has shown, thieves have been known to either give up on trying to take a recorder, or beat and smash the hell out of the recorder because they can't remove it. In that case, the hope is that the hard drive hasn't failed in the process, which so far has not happened, though that should never be discounted as a potential hazard of this type of installation.

You COULD opt for the best of both worlds... Install a DVR/NVR with an NVR on a small local LAN as backup, then bolt them each down or stick them in lock boxes.

That's what I suggest. If you need help identifying a brand that will do realtime parallel backups, feel free to ask.

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RK
Rajesh Kandpal
Aug 28, 2016

Long back we too started facing such issues with once financial organisation. So how we worked it out is that we connected additionally one NVR to their DVR via a network wire. We made sure to keep NVR a bit far away from DVR. The NVR is programmed to record parallelly all channels of DVR, it works well if DVR and NVR belong to same company or both support ONVIF. Please note to hide the location of NVR for more intelligent thieves we can use WiFi network too

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Matt Ion
Aug 28, 2016

You could also go with something in between cloud storage and a dummy recorder, and have your DVR/NVR record to external storage. Could be USB-attached external drives tucked somewhere separate from the recorder, or an iSCSI unit hidden in an entirely separate part of the building. Then they can take the recorder, but all the video stays on-site.

Also beneficial if the recorder fails - you don't have to worry about losing video with it.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Of course theives are upping their game all the time. In a recent case in California, theives apparently tried to "flush" the video evidence down the sink by leaving the cameras under running (hot?) water.

Making this crime so much worse is the fact that California is currently in one of their worst droughts in history.

Link here for video, (rated IP69K for language and strong jets).

Related: Are Smash N Grab Thieves Getting Smarter?

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Billy Guthrie
Aug 28, 2016

There are several options to choose from; it is very dependent how deep the pockets the customer has. Each option is an added expense; we felt the best solution is to just hide the DVR and remote the Video and mouse (HDMI/USB) over CAT5/6. Most of the DVRs can take a decent amount of heat (The main issue to consider is the hard drive); depending on your location, you can hide the DVR. One side note to consider, you also have to think about serviceability.

Always attempt to drop the cables down the wall to where the DVR is going to be installed, makes it harder to determine the location of the DVR.


Add signs and stickers to the property; secure the perimeter of the property with an intrusion alarm system; either system should compliment each other (Video Surveillance and an Intrusion Alarm System).

Residential: Typically mounted on the wall (You can use a lock box, but it does add an added expense), you can hide the DVR in the attic, behind an entertainment center, closets, garage, basement.

Commercial: Space above ceiling tiles, (wall mounted Lock box in the womens bathroom), electrical room, janitor's closet.

Hope that helps a bit.

Good Luck!

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U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Aloha, Billy!

Each option is an added expense; we felt the best solution is to just hide the DVR and remote the Video and mouse (HDMI/USB) over CAT5/6.

In that case why not go with a "headless" NVR/DVR/NAS solution, to save space and money?

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EDWIN KHETHIWE
Aug 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Thanks for your response please help me further with a "headless" i have never seen or heard that

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Mark Jones
Aug 29, 2016

Good Morning Mr. Khethiwe,

I am not attempting to arm-chair quarterback this situation, but did/does your client have an alarm of any kind?

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EDWIN KHETHIWE
Sep 04, 2016
IPVMU Certified

The client didnt have alarm...

MB
Matt Bischof
Aug 29, 2016

By "headless", 'Undisclosed 1' is referring to a system that relies solely on cloud-based storage, with no localized storage, meaning no DVR or NVR HEAD-end.

What type of upload/download speeds are your local internet service providers capable of producing in Botswana, Edwin?

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

By "headless", 'Undisclosed 1' is referring to a system that relies solely on cloud-based storage, with no localized storage, meaning no DVR or NVR HEAD-end.

To be consistent, I would have to call cloud only recording "headless" and "bodyless" :)

Because I was referring to the group of products that run recording software on NAS boxes without the need for a hdmi/usb console. Like those from Synology, QNAP, and Netgear for instance.

I said this because Billy was using Cat5 to extend keyboard/video/mouse functions to a seperate physical area. Besides the cost/complexity of the KVM extension, there is the loss of space wherever the dedicated console is placed. Since the console is remote anyway, the idea would be to just administer thru a PC client(s) on the LAN.

I have also run Dahua NVR's headless personally without an issue, though I believe there may be certain function restricted to a hard wired console. So, I'm not sure you would want to do that unless you had a portable hdmi/keyboard stashed away for emergencies.

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EDWIN KHETHIWE
Sep 04, 2016
IPVMU Certified

For the commonly used one: Download speed is approx. 28.4 Mbps (3.6 MB/s) ...Average Upload Speed: 6.4 Mbps (803 kB/s)

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Aug 29, 2016

Speco sells one that looks like an alarm panel box. The ones I install look like an electrical panel and are installed in electric closets

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EDWIN KHETHIWE
Sep 04, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Do you mind sharing pics of those and the cost?

U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 04, 2016
IPVMU Certified
CP
Chris Powell
Aug 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Back in the coax/DVR days, whenever we upgraded or expanded a DVR (or time-lapse VHS recorder, but I date myself!) we made it a 'value-added service' to leave the old unit in place, with power, cables, even dust attached (just cut and anchor the cables above ceiling tiles, and silence the troubles to avoid nuisance video-loss beeps). The new unit would go somewhere else, behind lock and key. Mostly this just gave the shop owner some comfort regarding some 'what if' Q&A, but at least one customer called after a break-in with news that they had video of the thief walking out the door, recorded by the new hidden DVR.

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...at least one customer called after a break-in with news that they had video of the thief walking out the door, recorded by the new hidden DVR.

And the theives would get the old DVR complete with video of the new replacement DVR being installed.

Perfect!

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Jon Dillabaugh
Aug 31, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

TLDNR all the other responses, so forgive if these have been mentioned above:

1) Harden your recorder by mounting it in a locked rack, inside a locked room.

2) Most DVR/NVRs that I've used have the ability to also FTP video to a NAS or another site.

3) Most also allow you to do a snapshot image upon motion or other events like alarms

4) Did she have an alarm system? You can use an output of that system to trigger the DVR/NVR to upload footage upon alarm.

5) Use more than one DVR/NVR. One in relative plain site, one in a much more hidden location. Some higher end DVR's have loop outputs. You can use these to feed the second, less hidden DVR.

6) Mount the DVR/NVR out of reach. I usually install them above 9ft if possible. This makes it much less likely for a thief to reach it and take it. It doesn't prevent it, but it makes them bring, find, or steal a ladder to get to it.

7) Install a camera just above the DVR/NVR that will take a good facial image of the thieves that is setup to send a snapshot upon motion.

8) Make #7 an IP camera with an SD card. This way, they aren't as likely to take both. You will still have the SD card footage.

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EDWIN KHETHIWE
Sep 04, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Thanks for your response.

The client didn't have alarm. For most of my clients locally im using DVR because not most of the people don't have internet at their places.

can your suggestion for #4 work with DVR?

AW
Alex Wasilesku
Aug 31, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I am very sorry to hear this happened to your client.

NVR's however should never be accessible to a theif. Either under lock in a properly mounted box or in a spot where no employee has access to such as the MDF. The customer should always deny all knowledge of the location of the NVR.

If there is no option to secure the NVR then cloud back up recording is an absolute must. Possibly have the NVR save all video directly to a NAS device vs the internal hard drive of the recorder and only use the NVR hard drive for Archive recordings.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 31, 2016
IPVMU Certified

The customer should always deny all knowledge of the location of the NVR.

Maybe just to be safe, the integrator shouldn't even tell him.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Aug 31, 2016

Mount an NVR in a different inaccessible room (data closet?) or above the ceiling and use a computer to remote into the NVR. They will take the PC on your desk long before they find the NVR.

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dw
dean woodyatt
Aug 31, 2016

use IP cameras and on-board SD card recording, sending a second stream to the NVR

that way, long term storage is in the clients premesis, and a short term - few hours / days is in the camera

There'll be duplicated footage, if the NVR dissapears, refer to the in-camera

if camera dissapears, it'll be on the NVR

then of course, there's cloud....

also, there could be directory duplication / moving - setup a script to copy the footage from the NVR to a longer term archive / big NAS box somewhere else in the house

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Jon Dillabaugh
Sep 07, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Forgot to mention, most of the DVR's we have installed have the ability to bolt through the bottom of the chassis. Simply remove the screws for the top cover, set the DVR in place, screw it down, replace lid and screws. This will greatly slow them down. Of course, your surface you're mounting to has to be permanent.

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Joseph Parker
Sep 08, 2016

Put the dvr on top of a grenade with the pin pulled. When the thief picks it up, boom! Problem solved! The footage may not be usable, but who cares! Amiright?

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Jon Dillabaugh
Sep 08, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Just document it really well so the next service tech isn't blown away by your design.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Sep 08, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Yes, especially the pin-out.

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