Scramble Pads Plus Biometrics?

Has anyone ever seen an exterior rated scramble key pad with biometric reader? Seems like Hirsch / Identiv is the big name in scramble pads, but I didn't see one.

Secondary question, what's the current status of biometric readers and their reliability? The data and educational stuff here on IPVM tends to encourage me to stay away from them, but i've got a customer requesting it. I'm totally ok with telling them that it's not ready for prime time if that's the general consensus

Hi Scott,

We redistributed Suprema biometric readers over a 4-year period (ending last year) and they were very reliable for us. We sold upwards of 300 units in that time the failure rate was very low. The feature set and pricing were very good also so I would not hesitate in recommending them.

Unfortunately for us, they decided to focus their sales through a very specific channel (a single representative firm and distribution through ADI) and we lost the possibility of reselling the units. Nonetheless, we were very happy with the performance and quality.

If you are using a solution where the biometric "templates" are stored on the controller, you have plenty of options. I would probably use a Schlage/Allegion SERIII-W wiegand scramble pad, and then a biometric reader in which the templates (biometric data) are managed in the controller by the PACS. I know some Mercury and Mercury OEMs support biometric templates at the contorller, and I think Software House does as well.

If you are looking for a biometric solution in which the biometric templates are managed completely separately from the PACS, and upon successful valiation simply outputs wiegand to a board that has no idea biometrics are even in use (a very common scenario), then I know of no options there that have a scamble-pad.


Just to clarify on here, "The data and educational stuff here on IPVM tends to encourage me to stay away from them"

Our concerns are more on the video surveillance side. It's a lot easier to effectively and accurately use biometrics for access control than video surveillance, since people are inherently cooperating with the system.

John thank you for the reply. What I was referring to is that IPVM had mentioned how external issues can affect fingerprint readers (like dirt/rain/weather). So, I didn't mean to infer that IPVM had a bias against biometrics, just that they were pointing out issues that I'd not previously considered about.

I remember seeing a unit at a tradeshow a few years ago that combined a fingervien sensor with a large touchscreen. That touchscreen had the option to display a scramblepad for multifactor authentication. I'll try to pin down the model of that reader and update here.

Also, IPVM does not have a bias against biometrics, we just stress picking the correct one for the application, and not based on flashy marketing or low price. (We apply the same criteria to any credential...) When used properly, especially with multiple factors as you suggest, biometrics can be a great choice for access applications.

Biran, could it be that one?!finger-vein-reader/c23vt

(I mean to first one on the page, but no IP65)

Thank you "Undisclosed 1 Manufacturer" for your testimony. Do not hesitate to touch base with me (LinkedIn link below) regarding your business. Suprema Inc has Entertech USA appointed as our sole distributor as you said but I don't see a reason why you cannot have successful business with them. They are just great and we will find a win/win point.

Dear Scott,

I think that you have a good one with Hirsch/Identiv , here =>

But I am not sure if they still support Biometrics (fingerprint). I guess the demand was not that high so they might have droped the product in the merging. But it is just my modest assumption.

I can recommend a Suprema device that does not have ScramblePad defacto but we can implement it (that is a minor customization). Unfortunately, it does not support IP65 rating:

- BioStation T2 =>

It is an Indoor PIN + Card + Fingeprint reader

I can recommend other Suprema devices but you will not get the ScramblePad (unfortunately):

- BioLite Net =>

It is an IP65 rated PIN + Card + Fingeprint reader => dedicated to access control

- BioStation 2 =>

It is an IP65 rated PIN + Card + Fingeprint reader. Also includes Wifi, PoE, fast Fingerprint, extended memory (20K users) and a Colored 2.5 inches screen

Now here comes the best solution in the market if you want to stick to your specifications - Buying two interconnected readers:

- One Card + Pin Scramble IP65 Reader => will send the User ID to the second device (wiegand) => I recommend Software House for that reader.

- One entry level IP65 fingerprint reader => will receive the User ID (wiegand) and will wait for fingerprint verification before granting access => BioEntry W

For the USA market, you shall use an iClass SE card that can store the user PIN on the card memory. The user fingerprint credential (template) will be stored on the device (5K user max).

You also have the possiblity to store the fingerprint on the card, in that case the Authentication process will be: Show card on reader 1 / Make Scramble PIN / Show card on reader 2 / Verify Fingerprint. This process might require a slight customization (FW of the biometric reader).

You can have more information about Suprema and Biometric readers in general here: [Fingerprint Readers Examined] and here: [Favorite Biometrics 2014].

You can contact me for further inquiries:

Or contact our sales team via our website "Product Inquiry" (12h answer).

Best regards,


CEM new Emerald fingerprint reader has the Scramble Pad (as seen on the video) =>