Subscriber Discussion

Replacing Avigilon System With Milestone?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 05, 2017

Client has approximately 30 Avigilon  cameras on an an Avigilon server. They would like to get away from their service provider and switch to us, but we are not Avigilon dealers, so we are looking at replacing the VMS with Milestone.

 

 

I believe there may be two servers

 

 

We do not have much experience in this area. Is it possible to just install Milestone on the server(s) and leave Avigilon there and just stop running it? That way they have access to old footage?

 

I know one is 15 or 18TB and the other is 3ish TB. That doesnt make sense either, as I would think the loads would be balanced on each server. I would imagine these have RAID configurations, which I am not familiar with.

 

The needs are very basic. live view and retrieve footage. This is a small apartment community with VERY basic needs. I am very tempted to put in a couple Dahua NVR's but I think the SmartPSS would be too clunky for them.

 

Thoughts?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 05, 2017

Does Milestone have a sales engineering department that could help with this?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 05, 2017

Looks like a last generation HDNVR.  The specs are available on Avigilons website under HD-NVR2.

It has embedded windows 7 by default.  The OS could possibly be repurposed but I doubt it.  You may want to wipe and put in a full OS.  Since the processor on those old servers didn't have hyperthreading and greatly underperformed with Milestone I would either look to replace the processor or work to setup edge motion detection.  However, without knowing how many cameras, what resolution they are, and the FPS that may or may not be necessary.

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 05, 2017

there are roughly 30 cameras, not sure of how many are on each server.

 

The majority of them are 4MP

 

I found this thread from 3 years ago. It seems as if 3 years ago the server was old.

https://ipvm.com/forums/video-surveillance/topics/avigilon-hd-nvr2-using-outdated-dell-r710-with-raid-5-is-it-worth-paying-more-than-latest-r720

 

I wonder if I should just quote a new system.

 

All they really want is to add a license plate camera and replace a couple of bad cameras.

 

MM
Michael Miller
Jun 05, 2017

If they are 4MP cameras then they are not Avigilon cameras. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 05, 2017

If they want to do character recognition/LPR the processor is likely not up to it.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Jun 05, 2017

[IPVM Note: Milestone Employee]

Milestone does support OS's as far back as Win 7. 64-bit is a requirement, but your OS is 64-bit so that is good.

The E5 processor will be idling along with only 30 cameras so you are good there.

RAM should be OK

You can search to see if your Avigilon cameras are supported here.

Lastly, you can download a 30-day trial and simply install it to see if it will work the way you want it to.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 05, 2017

Beware it is not a particularly high performing E5 processor.  ~3900 on passmark... roughly the same as a modern i3 low power CPU.  It is essentially an entry level E5 even when it was new.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Jun 05, 2017

Why not contact your nearest AVIGILON rep and see if you can broker a deal. If the end user has genuine reasons why he/she wants to mover a way from the current SI and then a solution should be easily available imo. Changing to Milestone could mean saddling your customer with recurring licensing fees going forward and changing it to Dahua, well, what can I say...

If the cameras are 4MP than they are definitely not AVIGILON. Simply upgrade the software to the latest available version and address the camera issues at the camera side, not the VMS. AVIGILON can offer LPR eitehr through LPR kit cameras or with Bullet at slow moving traffic applications such as barriers.

Ps if that's the way the R720 Servers were installed from the beginning than maybe it's already clear why the end user would want to move from their current SI.

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 05, 2017

Ps if that's the way the R720 Servers were installed from the beginning than maybe it's already clear why the end user would want to move from their current SI

 

Are you saying this is not high quality? :) 

 

Milestone fees are $13 per camera for maintenance. If client chooses no maintenance, then there are no reoccurring fees.

 

I am not interested in working with Avigilon for a couple reasons. Bad experience with regional rep in past and I am not really looking to bring on yet another line, just for one client.

 

I only got a quick glance at the camera specs, and from the resolution I saw, I thought they were 4MP. They may be, and just not be Avigilon cameras.

 

 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #6
Jun 24, 2017

That would be a good pic for the sub-Reddit /cablefail  

There is no way that little ups holds that entire load for more then a brief moment, the powersupply box does not look like it closes, not to mention the other cable issues in addition to the video system.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Jun 05, 2017

Milestone does not have reoccurring license fees. They do have an optional program to buy future software...

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MM
Michael Miller
Jun 05, 2017

Is support included if you don't pay for the optional program?

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Joseph Trowbridge
Jun 05, 2017

Yes - They have several levels of support and all are optional - take a look at the website and it explains all of their options.

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MM
Michael Miller
Jun 05, 2017

mind posting the link?

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Joseph Trowbridge
Jun 05, 2017

https://www.milestonesys.com/files/MilestoneCare/Brochures/Milestone_Care_Brochure_ENG_web.pdf

Link to the Care Brochures - Not a Milestone Employee but I do like the product for larger systems.

 

IN my opinion - i would look at an ExacqVision System - very user friendly and you get a 3 year SSA with a Server Purchase.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jun 05, 2017

[IPVM Note: Milestone Employee]

Yes, tech support is included and new cameras integrated as well.

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MM
Michael Miller
Jun 05, 2017

So if you're NOT paying for support a customer can call and get support on the phone AND get free software upgrades?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Jun 05, 2017

No, if you are not paying UPDATES you can call and get support on the phone, AND get NEW camera drivers integrated, no FREE software upgrades.

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MM
Michael Miller
Jun 05, 2017

Very helpful thank you

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Josh Hendricks
Jun 05, 2017
Milestone Systems

Technical support is always available to resellers during business hours, and Device Pack updates enabling support of new devices/firmware are released for everyone at no additional cost. End customers are required to have an active Care Premium subscription if they would like to work directly with Milestone for technical support or have vendor-level 24x7 support.

Care Plus is analogous to a software maintenance agreement. It entitles the licensed software to upgrades for the life of the agreement, but does not include any additional entitlement for technical support for any party.

Care Premium is Care Plus, with 24x7 access to technical support by either the customer or the reseller. The customer can choose at this point whether to use Milestone, their reseller, or a combination of both for on-going technical support. Along with 24x7 access to support come service level agreements for initial response time and progress status updates.

While we always strive for good response/resolution times with or without any ongoing Care agreement, Care Premium customers get priority in both the technical support teams and our development teams.

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Max Davis
Jun 05, 2017

We would be happy to provide you with demo licensing and software.  We work with Avigilon cameras and encoders and have taken over several Avigilon servers.  Please reach out if you would like a demo.  Please feel free to shoot us an email sales@mirasysinc.com  

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Danny Vallejo
Jun 14, 2017

I didn't see anyone ask about the cameras. With the servers they do have 64 bit so probably at least 2008R2 or Windows 7. Either way you should be able to install another VMS on there. Most platforms still support 2008. Performance might not be great but would allow you to start a new system. 

The main issue I would look into is the cameras. They might be new enough to support h264 with OnVif compliance with Profile S. Avigilon has a JPEG2000 line of cameras that are proprietary and will not work in any VMS. This would leave you to not have any live video from 30 cameras. If that is the case then you should probably just leave the current cameras in the Avigilon system and connect any new cameras to the new VMS. 

 

Verify your cameras are Onvif compliant profile S so that you know if they'll stream video to a different VMS. At that point then you can test installing Milestone on the servers. If cameras are not Onvif might change your entire approach.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #6
Jun 24, 2017

I am happy you came to IPVM to seek help, but as you stated you "don't have a lot of experience in this area" or with RAID configurations. This might be a good system to walk away from if they don't go with a full head-end upgrade with your reputation intact.

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BS
Brad Silvernail
Sep 11, 2017

Just completed a similar migration with about 30 cameras.   Would only tackle as a clean install of milestone on a new server.   Migrated the cameras.  Some of the cameras wonky.  Used ONVIF.    Challenge with motion masks and reliable PTZ operation.  But, they are way better off than they started.  Also, rebuilt the network and changed the core network switch.

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Sep 11, 2017

If the customer is only looking to add a couple of cameras, have you considered reaching out to the RSM for avigilon?  That person could steer you to another integrator that could help you out with the Avigilon piece and you could still make some money.  It may be in the best interest of the customer and you both.  I know we have come into similar situations with other lines and have always been able to find someone to work with.  Just a thought.

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Mike Dotson
Sep 11, 2017
Formerly of Seneca • IPVMU Certified

An important couple of questions are ... where does this customer view the streams? and what are the FPS and stream sizes?

The reason for this is system performance.   The newest Milestone code (assuming the 'plus' version here has a very different hardware recommendation than in the past for both the server and client apps.

Also, The Client viewing code runs very different between these two vendors.

It is usually never a good idea to view a significant number of camera streams on the recording server as it will take CPU resource away.   The 'count' will depend entirely on how much CPU is available and how much is needed to record and handle other tasks.

If you are able to, set this up in your shop using either VLC or the Axis camera simulator and have the system as close in hardware as you can.   This will provide good info on the possibility of the change.

If you can change the hardware base (the CPU is 2012 vintage), you will have more options.

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