Replace Lenel System With Software House / Qognify (NICE)?

JH
John Honovich
Jul 21, 2017
IPVM

A member is asking for other member feedback on the pros and cons of replacing his existing Lenel (access and video) system with a Software House CCURE + Qognify (NICE) combination?

Any input, please share.

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Brian Rhodes
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

From a features standpoint, what are the desired integrated systems?  CCURE and which video/alarm/visitor management, etc?

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Brian Rhodes
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

From an access control standpoint, CCURE is Tyco-centric in what it integrates with, so integrating it with Qognify may be a necessary but costly step for basic integrations.

From a strictly access control features point-of-view, CCURE and OnGuard are similar. However, Lenel is based on Mercury Security hardware, which is potentially migrate-able to another Mercury based system.  CCURE is strictly proprietary.

 

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SD
Shannon Davis
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Not sure why you would want to do that. Softwarehouse is proprietary and really expensive. With Lenel they have choices down the road if needed. In fact you can now replace Sofwarehouse Istar Pro panels with Mercury hardware. Also I haven't heard from very many who actually are a fan of CCURE9000. Also Lenel has lots of integrations with video, fire, intercom and many other systems. Yes people complain about Lenel and their customer service but they are making strides to get back to having great customer service. Also they are now starting to invest in developing features and enhancements to their product line as well. 

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 22, 2017

Personally cannot fathom why anyone would do that. An unbelievably costly rip and replace on the access side that will not provide any real improvement in functionality, decreases the ability to integrate other platforms, and will cost more in the long run. 

I don't know what the issues with Lenel might be, but I don't think they would be solved at all by going to SWH. I would instead look to replace the video with Genetec, Avigilon, or now Milestone with their partnership with Lenel. 

I especially would never recommend replacing a Mercury system with a proprietary one. If you want to get rid of Lenel, keep the Mercury and with Genetec Synergis. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jul 22, 2017

No doubt. Security integration today is all about the open platform. Proprietary subsystems are a step backward.

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Jonathan Lawry
Jul 24, 2017
Trecerdo, LLC

With Mercury, you have almost 20 partners that would be able to talk to the panels without having to replace them.  Chances are, one of them is going to have the features required for the job.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Jul 31, 2017

Agree 100% Also, I may be biased in this but why go backwards in technology with client-server architecture? Have you thought about cloud-based? BluB0X Security uses the Mercury panels and is 100% cloud-based and is hosted in Microsoft Azure. You should take a look at them. 

MC
Marty Calhoun
Jul 22, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Absolutely not, he should get as far as he can away from CCURE or anything that ropes you into 'their' platform. This time I have to AGREE with Brian and suggest you bone up on OPEN OPTIONS. You can keep 99% of the existing hardware and use brand spanking new software. Why replace hardware that works? Its the cumbersome, poorly supported, featureless software that has you pissed so use a company that will integrate easily with what you have.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 23, 2017

The suggestion of replacing Lenel with Open Options is somehow even more asinine than your constant promotion of hikvision. That would be an utterly horrible idea, regardless of how frustrated someone might be with Lenel...

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MC
Marty Calhoun
Jul 23, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Aah is that all you have, while hiding behind the 'undisclosed' window? I can promote and deflate as I choose in any manner that is reasonable because that is what this forum is for. Name calling is for cheap trunk slammers that have no real professional rationale  to support their 'undisclosed' opinion. 

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JH
John Honovich
Jul 23, 2017
IPVM

That would be an utterly horrible idea, regardless of how frustrated someone might be with Lenel...

#1, why do you think replacing Lenel with Open Options would be an utterly horrible idea? Is it a comparable lack of functionality or?

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 23, 2017

The functionality, stability, and integration capabilities of Open Options is nowhere near that of Onguard in even one those categories. The only reason to do that would be price, and that would be silly because you've already invested in OnGuard and the money has been spent. 

I have converted probably a dozen Open Options system to OnGuard over the years, and it's always because there is some major lack of functionality on Open Options.

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Shannon Davis
Jul 23, 2017
IPVMU Certified

The major issues most VAR's have had with Lenel is their video solutions. To say their software is poorly supported is completely false. Sure the video has issues but this is why they have partnered with Milestone and I will agree they should have fixed this a long time ago.  To say their software is cumbersome is false. To say they don't support their software is false. The only time we call Lenel is typically for video, but even then we rarely have to call. If you are having to call support for what ever system you are using on a regular basis then it is either one of two things: A bad system or you don't know your system. To say their software has no features is false. If anything Lenel has too many features. Sure Lenel is big on their software support agreements but let me tell you when you install a Lenel system the majority of the time you can walk away and know that it will just run. I have had many customers over the years who didn't want to pay to keep their system current and I get it especially when you are just using it for an electronic key system. The problem is it just keeps on running and the only reason they have to upgrade is ALWAYS due to the operating system no longer being supported and they have to upgrade their sever to be compatible with the newer operating system. Now I get in this day and age if all they want is a glorified key system then you don't necessarily need the power of a system like Lenel but if you do then no one even comes close to the long term stability and performance of Lenel. When you just need an appliance type system then I suggest TruPortal. 

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U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 23, 2017

Preach. Spot on, from top to bottom. 

DB
Dan Bilodeau
Jul 23, 2017

I wouldnt rip out Lenel just as I wouldnt rip out C-Cure 9000.  There are plenty of integrations and integrators with both of these top end platforms.  They have as many features as anything out there.  It seems like trading a Ferrai for a Lamborghini to me - as Carmella Soprano would say, thats what we call a high class problem.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jul 23, 2017

I cannot understand any reason to rip a potentially open hardware platform for one that is proprietary.  

 

Both the systems are top tier systems with there own unique benefits.  

 

If I were to be dissatisfied with the Software support costs from Lenel, the same issue exists with SoftwareHouse more or less, or Genetec for that matter.  

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Jul 24, 2017

Obviously this member, who I assume is an end-user, does not have a VAR worth a crap or this question would have not have surfaced. There is absolutely zero reason to do away with Lenel. You may want to look at getting rid of your VAR of Record and find one who will service your account as you deserve.

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A. Mirsan Budak
Jul 25, 2017
IPVMU Certified

With the weakened support after acquired by GE (then UTC), I see people changing their Lenel system. If you wanna get rid of Lenel, S2 Security (both access and video) may be a smart choise. S2 Security' API is open and have done a lot of Lenel takeovers. Also, top S2 people used to work for Lenel, they might even know about Lenel system better than current Lenel people. 

Yet still, Lenel is Lenel.

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Daniel S-T
Sep 25, 2019

I guess this comment hasn't aged well, given S2 is now merged with Lenel...

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U
Undisclosed #5
Jul 31, 2017

I use both Lenel and SoftwareHouse in a large global organization. I would gladly trade Lenel for SoftwareHouse if I could. SoftwareHouse is stupid expensive, it has proprietary hardware, and could use some cutting edge feature improvements. That said, it integrates with DMP, DSC, Bosch, Milestone, Exacq, and a bunch of others. Circling back to the large global organization part, I don't support a single site, I support over 40 commercial/industrial locations, so integrations with VMS and IDS are important. 802.1x support, UL Compliance, FIPS compliance, FICAM compliance are all business discriminators for SoftwareHouse, as not only do they support it but they have staff that actually understands what they support (and are willing to talk to the end user). If I was dealing with a few small locations I wouldn't bother with either and would use something like S2. Without knowing what type of business the member is in, this maybe arbitrary, but IMO SoftwareHouse makes sense for large organizations.

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JH
John Honovich
Jul 31, 2017
IPVM

I use both Lenel and SoftwareHouse in a large global organization

#5, thanks, very informative!

Question: How do you manage users / cards across the Lenel and Software House systems?

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U
Undisclosed #5
Jul 31, 2017

To date, we treat them as separate systems and issue separate cards out of each system. We have the card formats created in both systems, which allows us to use the same card on both, but for various reasons we only do so on occasion. We have the SoftwareHouse system integrated with our Human Resource Information System (PeopleSoft), to create personnel records, I am considering creating a two way feed so I could move the card number up from one system and down to another (SWH to PeopleSoft to Lenel) and vise versa. Another plus, on this is that StyleSheets in SoftwareHouse allow me to do a lot of customization that I haven't found in Lenel or S2. Such as expiration date based on personnel type, creating business units in different partitions, etc.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Jul 31, 2017

These are good opinions. In order to truly make an informed response additional information would be valuable and would add weight into a decision.

-what is the security posture needs and requirements of your organization? Are they unique?

-how is your organization set up today? Is it a mix of fragmented systems and the direction is consolidating into one system that would potentially lower cost, improve the ability of groups to interact with a common system, standardize on a support model, etc.

-how complicated are your integration(s) today? Are you doing basic camera call ups or something much more exotic?

To me, while important to weigh the needs of proprietary vs. open, this vendor vs. that vendor, much of it depends on your organization outlook and direction.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #7
Jul 31, 2017

I agree that more information would be beneficial.  I've seen where companies have had a need to transition to different platforms as they were acquired by other organizations.  The acquisition required the company to transition to a different access control system to allow interoperability within the new organization.

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Undisclosed #5
Jul 31, 2017

It would also be good to understand where Qognify comes in. If I recall correctly Qognify integrates with both SoftwareHouse and Lenel, could it be used in conjunction with some scripts to avoid a conversion.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #9
Jul 31, 2017

What are the Business Requirements?  I assume you already have those defined so you can determine what platform best suits them. 

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Michael Gonzalez
Aug 01, 2017
Confidential

I completely understand the tendency to want to promote systems that you install as integrators, but I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind making emotionally driven, or just plain false claims to support your points, as I've seen in some of these comments.

I don't have much experience working with Lenel, so I can't provide any intelligent feedback on it. I can,  however, say that my experience w/ SoftwareHouse CCURE 9000 hasn't been anything like what I've read in the comments here.

I'm using about 95% of the functions/features in CCURE 9000 and I've found it to be very easy to use, and very easy to integrate with just about anything. I even have these new anti-bird laser things integrated with it, which aren't designed to integrate with anything, yet we found a way.

I think the "blame it on the software" mentality is just something people who haven't put in the effort to learn fall back on too regularly. I've gone through every certification offered by SoftwareHouse, and I can tell you with absolute certainty, I haven't run into a single instance where CCURE 9000 couldn't do what I needed it to do, and didn't do it well.

Just my two cents.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #10
Sep 25, 2019

Depending upon your depth of knowledge of Lenel, there are a number of options, some of which are covered above so I won’t repeat.

if you understand the topology and programming strategy then how about considering Avigilon Access Control Manager?

it uses the same hardware as lenel, so is a relatively simple upgrade, including firmware updates.

deployment is a little time consuming but I understand that a logical wizard is part of the next release due very shortly.

once deployed the system is very easy and powerful to use. There are many integrations (of course it works best with ACC)

its worth a look to see if it meets your expectations and needs...

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