PSA CEO Speaks Out On 'Controversial' IPVM

JH
John Honovich
Dec 30, 2016
IPVM

From their annual convention business update:

This summer we did have a phone call and I said something like 'people don't give a crap about cyber security' and our April Cyber Security For Video Surveillance Study largely showed that. However, interest / concern is definitely up since Mirai (which was after our phone call and their event he was at). In the enterprise, it is becoming a primary issue and overall awareness is up. Of course, how important it gets depends on what happens next with hacks / attacks.

As for being controversial to sell things, Bozeman evidently forgets his public honesty is restricted by the manufacturer funded conference / vacation he was at and the ~170 products that he sells. For sure, we are controversial but it is not for the money, it is because I believe in what we are doing. We would certainly make far more money being 'personal friends' and promoting powerful people and organization like Bozeman's group, Axis, the Chinese government / Hikvision, etc. Indeed, Bozeman has asked about doing deals with PSA for IPVM (like he does with numerous products he sells / promotes), I would not even consider it because we value our independence.

In terms of being a 'blog', we have 470 original product tests, original software including the Camera Calculator, the Camera Finder, the Camera Comparison tool, 170+ statistics reports based on our industry wide surveys, (3) ~300 page books, train 800+ people a year in our courses, etc.

Lastly, and the one thing I want to emphasize for the rest of the IPVM team, the references to 'John Honovich' = IPVM are unfair. I certainly understand that 'Honovich' writes the most controversial posts so 'Honovich' gets the most attention but we have 7 other team members (e.g., including industry vets Ethan Ace, Brian Rhodes, Brian Karas, Ari Erenthal) who do most of the work we publish / release.

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Undisclosed #1
Dec 30, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We would certainly make far more money being friends and promoting powerful people and organization like Bozeman's group, Axis, the Chinese government / Hikvision, etc.

For a year maybe.

But once your credibility was gone wouldn't you just become another SDM or SSN etc?

And are they really doing that well?

btw, I don't think that Bozeman is trying to be unfair by saying 'Does anyone read Honovich?" instead of IPVM, any more than you do when you refer to "Bozeman's Group" instead of PSA.  And as you imply, he may be referring to you specifically since you have many more 'controversial' posts than anyone else.  Also, IMHO, you typically provide the most spirited defense in the subsequent comments, whether it's your article or not.

Lastly, did you really say 'crap'?  ;)

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JH
John Honovich
Dec 30, 2016
IPVM

But once your credibility was gone wouldn't you just become another SDM or SSN etc?

No, because we have software tools, and tests, and training. The magazines have none of that. The magazines lack credibility because they simply repackage press releases and PR statements. Our credibility ultimately comes from our research, testing and software development.

We could not be 'controversial' by refraining to criticize powerful players and just focus on 'selling' our tests, training and tools. We might lose some revenue for people who like that but we could gain a lot from manufacturers and integrators who do not want their partners criticized. I am not interested in pursuing that approach but it is certainly an economically viable one.

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Undisclosed #1
Dec 30, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We could not be 'controversial' by refraining to criticize powerful players...

Yes, that's true.  But 'refraining to criticize' is different than 'being personal friends and promoting powerful people', as you originally characterized it.

My point is that you have a monopoly on controversy in this industry, and that is worth a lot.

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JH
John Honovich
Dec 30, 2016
IPVM

That 'monopoly' on controversy also cost us a lot of money as many powerful companies in the industry who refuse to pay for IPVM.

Ultimately, to really maximize making money would depend on making friends and promoting those powerful people because their marketing budgets dwarfs the revenue we can make being 'controversial'. That is a big reason we have a 'monopoly' on this because others have found it more profitable and easier to be friends with powerful companies.

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Undisclosed #1
Dec 30, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...as many powerful companies in the industry who refuse to pay for IPVM.

At least your informal conference polling is way up, from ~5 @ MIPS in 2014 to 'about half' in the PSA video. :)

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JH
John Honovich
Dec 30, 2016
IPVM

At least your informal conference polling is way up

Your encyclopedic recall of all things IPVM is amazing!

You also may recall that that was not Ralph Jensen's biggest error of the story, as he also happily reported Milestone's CEO's IPO preparation lie too. I still wonder if Ralph knew that when he reported it or if Lars allowed Ralph to report what he knew was a lie. Either way, that was another 'controversy' but only because the other media in our industry are happy to just pass along whatever PR statement is provided to them.

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Undisclosed #2
Dec 30, 2016

It isn't so much him reporting what John said to him about cyber security - and the general lack of industry people giving a crap... it's the condescending way he sets up bringing John's name up that is - imo - intellectually offensive.

He starts off saying - almost as an aside - that what he is about to say next is funny.  Then he chuckles to himself to reinforce that it is indeed funny... and that somehow he can't believe that he is actually going to utter these words to a room full of people who are clearly so intelligent (like him) that they will surely agree with his diminished view of Johns words.  Whatever it is that they are...

He groomed the audience to diminish John's point of view before he even mentioned what it was.  Which is poor form in a debate, but pretty effective when preaching in an echo chamber.

More effective - at least based on his follow up comments that he has spent two years trying to educate the industry on the perils of cyber security - would have been to use Johns comments to validate his own position that more needs to be done, and attitudes still need to be changed.

Instead, he used his dais to ridicule John and IPVM.

Poor form.

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Undisclosed #3
Dec 30, 2016

I personally like the stimulation and debate IPVM provides. 

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JH
John Honovich
Dec 31, 2016
IPVM

Btw, later in the video, Bozeman mentions me again saying that I said to him no one gives a crap about robots and then he retorts this by saying that very large corporations are spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

This is grossly unfair and distorts our conversation.

First, what I told him was interest in robots was very low based on our readership statistics (low is almost an understatement), member feedback, and analysis of what the technology can do. This was further validated by Knightscope's mini-IPO when they disclosed only 15 machines in operation.

Secondly, the hundreds of millions spent is for robotics in general. What is relevant is their investment and practicality in physical security applications (which is far less and far more mature). And we have posted more coverage on physical security robots than anyone (including 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.)

Thirdly, and ironically, not only did he agree with me on the call about robots, he emphasized that his VP of Sales pushed back on him that he could not waste his time since sales interest was so low in robots.

To be clear, one day robots will be big in physical security (though 2017 is a stretch). My objection is that Bozeman knows there are big limitations, admitted them to me on the call he referenced but hid this from his group, choosing to misrepresent our call to make himself look good.

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Undisclosed #2
Dec 31, 2016

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Kyle Folger
Jan 02, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I watched the posted clip several times and am still trying to figure out why he even brought up your name at all. The way he tried to frame it came out very unrehearsed as it probably was. He should probably stick to a script as he didn't make me laugh. Considering this was the first time I've seen him speak, he didn't gain much credibility. 

I happen to agree that for the most part no one does care about cyber security. If they did, there wouldn't be so many issues. This can be applied to anyone involved in the chain from manufacturing to installing. If everyone cared, it wouldn't be a topic of discussion.

I didn't pay to be a part of this "blog" that really isn't a blog because it was controversial. I payed for it because it was about the only website I found that mentioned anything about WDR and did any testing with it and made it available. It has been well worth it. Being controversial isn't a bad thing, really. It can generally strike up intelligent conversation if done properly.

In the audio world, it's laughable to read trade magazines on installed projects. It's really just a name drop list that in a particular situation, those are the only products that would work. I would much rather read into the design of the system and not necessarily mention just the brands involved.

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JW
James Wickes
Jan 02, 2017

In an age of "fake news" and partisan reporting it is extremely refreshing to have an objective and honest news source. Thank you IPVM team and keep up the great work.

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Yoav Stern
Jan 02, 2017

This is not the first time that Bozeman "puts his foot in his mouth". I worked w him, and had him apologize perfusely when I caught him doing it, and confronted him.

Moreover, in this video, he was laughing nervously as he was speaking, trying to get "support" for his "humorous" subtext. Seems futile.

Thirdly, if 60% of his crowd reads IPVM, does it say something? Maybe? 

If he wants to say that he agrees with IPVM that not enough people are paying attention to cyber security - which is what he said at the end, there was a much nicer, more professional way to say it. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Jan 02, 2017

IPVM has far more influence than the PSA. Never read anything from them. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Jan 02, 2017

From what I have seen of this PSA thing, it appears to primarily be an outlet for manufacturers to sell their gear, and the supposed "Integrator-Owners" are pitted against each other in "Competitive bids" to install it. No thanks. 

JH
John Honovich
Jan 02, 2017
IPVM

the supposed "Integrator-Owners" are pitted against each other in "Competitive bids" to install it.

That is not my understanding. I would think the opposite is truer, not only do they partner together regularly but it's more of a social club (though of course they market it as education / training but what they do is less impressive).

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Undisclosed #1
Jan 02, 2017
IPVMU Certified

...it appears to primarily be an outlet for manufacturers to sell their gear, and the supposed "Integrator-Owners" are pitted against each other in "Competitive bids" to install it. 

That would work only if the manufacturer was supplying the gear and the deal.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Jan 02, 2017

I had reviewed their site a while back and it looks to me that the way they position themselves to the public is as a place to locate listed products and get "bids" from the member companies. 

This industry appears to be tripping over itself in the race to commoditize. I suppose I shouldn't complain, that only means there will be a lot less competition in the future as these companies and manufacturers die off through either bankruptcy, consolidation or just exiting the business due to lack of profitability.

The manufacturers in particular are behaving unconscionably, peddling their gear on any and all internet outlets, driving their own margins and credibility with the security industry further into the ground every day. 

With Hikvision and other manufacturers offering IP cameras at around or under 100 dollars, what is going to happen a few years from now when Hikvision has a 29 dollar camera? very soon the cameras will have to be offered to the customer for near or at free, in order to "get the deal", with the integrator subsidizing the cost of the camera. 

This happened in the hosted VoIP industry. It will happen to this one as well. The die is cast. 

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Brian Rhodes
Jan 02, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I had reviewed their site a while back and it looks to me that the way they position themselves to the public is as a place to locate listed products and get "bids" from the member companies. 

I'm not sure public marketing is a big part of what they do. PSA is essentially a guild. The main value is member integrators are able to negotiate collective volume/ better discounts under the PSA banner than they would alone.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Jan 02, 2017

It always struck me as the MassDrop of security - a place for the little guys to take advantage of volume pricing by creating group buys.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Jan 02, 2017

That's an interesting take on it.

it is an unfortunate situation that most security companies pay more for their camera gear through ADI or Anixter than an end-user would for the same gear on an internet site..

CR
Chad Ray
Jan 03, 2017

May I suggest a theme song for IPVM.  "I Won't Back Down"  Johnny Cash Version

In an age of corporate mandated poliitical correctness it is refreshing to hear a voice of creative individual spirit!

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John Doherty
Sep 24, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I guess we all can agree to disagree on Cyber security. The company I work for ENE is a PSA member and we find the purchasing power an advantage to our business. They have made us more competitive and we do find the PSA training and PSA online portal to be beneficial to all of our employees from sales to operations.  Cyber Security has been a big topic at PSA the last few years but it is more about the awareness of the cyber security risk that our IP camera and card access systems can pose to a customers network than the pushing of cyber security products. I have personally had a good experience at a PSA member but its only worth being a member if you use all the thing they have to offer. Just like being an IPVM member...its only worth the investment if you participate and use the tools they offer which will ultimately make you a better sales person, installer, project manager, etc.   

   

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JH
John Honovich
Sep 24, 2017
IPVM

John, thanks for the comment. You're reviving an older thread at an interesting time!

A lot of has changed in the last 9 months, such as the Dahua backdoor, the Hikvision backdoor, Hikvision's cracked security codes, Hikvision's emailing admin passwords in plain text, etc.

Industry people are overall taking cyber security a lot more significantly and its the reporting of IPVM, rather than PSA's high level talk, that is driving that.

UE
Undisclosed End User #7
Sep 25, 2017

 "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

JH
John Honovich
Sep 25, 2017
IPVM

then they fight you

Also, then they call you 'fake news' and 'absolutely unethical', then the details to their backdoor are released and they hide.

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John Doherty
Sep 25, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Either way if its PSA or IPVM reporting on cyber security at least someone it talking about it and keeping us informed.  I just wanted to let people know no matter what Bill from PSA thinks about IPVM my experience with PSA as a member has be very positive. 

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Undisclosed
Sep 25, 2017

If you don't like IPVM feel free to pick out a couple of other independent press outlets to read.  If you can find another pub that does actual product reviews, please, speak up.  And if you are under some sort of delusion that Mr. Honovich is the only one speaking out about some of the lame behavior in this industry you're just wrong.  We learned in the dot com boom that you can tell when someone's got something interesting to say by who they piss off.  I think IPVM has earned that level of credibility.  Yes, John's a little loud.  Some of the rest of us are loud too.  In a marketplace full of cameras that suck what did you expect?  Haven't we got better things to do that listen to manufacturers whine?

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