Subscriber Discussion

Private Vs Law Enforcement ALPR Use

U
Undisclosed #1
Apr 09, 2018

I apologize for the crappy pic, but I had to rush to get the shot...  :(

I was sitting in my car in a hotel parking lot in Denver one morning a few weeks ago before starting the day and I noticed this unmarked Toyota Corolla driving by shooting plates.

Has anyone else ever seen 'private' ALPR in use before?  

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JH
Jay Hobdy
Apr 09, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Are we sure that's ALPR and not a Google car?

U
Undisclosed #1
Apr 09, 2018

I've seen many Google Maps cars driving around and they are marked as such and have a high res tower camera coming out of the top middle of the car.

Those are ALPR cameras on that Toyota.... (edit) and it was driving through the parking lot, not driving down a road.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Apr 09, 2018

DD
Dan Droker
Apr 09, 2018
LONG Building Technologies • IPVMU Certified

Yes, I have seen this for parking enforcement in self pay private lots. But I have also heard about private use of ALPR for repo purposes.

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Michael Silva
Apr 09, 2018
Silva Consultants

One of my health care clients is deploying an ALPR system of this type for parking enforcement on their campus. According to them, there is a very quick payback on the system when compared to their previous method (chalking tires and then coming back to check on them later).

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U
Undisclosed #1
Apr 09, 2018

Hey Michael,

I hear this type of thing a lot - i.e. quick payback ( I even agreed with your comment).

Are there that many rogue parkers around using private lots to sneak into and park?

And if there are some of these, wouldn't ALPR be able to immediately bust them - and move them to other locations pretty quickly?  i.e. if I am a rogue parker and I get a ticket at your lot, I'm just going to move to another lot that doesn't have cars with ALPR roaming the lot?

My point is, how can these systems 'pay for themselves' unless they can do that within 30 days? (as an example.  I think most 'rogue parkers' would learn quickly - so any RMR-based program that offers this service would be hard-pressed to justify continued payment for such a thing).

Avatar
Michael Silva
Apr 09, 2018
Silva Consultants

This campus is in a busy downtown area where parking is scarce. Their 5,000 plus employees must pay for parking in an attempt to encourage the use of public transportation. Some employees who normally take public transportation occasionally drive to work and park even though they have not paid for parking. There are also employees from neighboring institutions who can't find parking at the site where they work and choose to park in one of my client's lots instead.

In Washington State, authorized businesses can request vehicle owner information based upon license plate number. Charges for parking violations can be billed to vehicle owners, and if not paid, can be turned over to a collection agency. 

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Sean Patton
Apr 09, 2018

You don't think like a rogue parker...

... from my experience selling these systems, there can be very quick paybacks, but that greatly depends on the environment, and who is running the parking department.

You may "bust them" 4 times in 3 months, but have a company policy not to place a wheel boot until they exceed $X owed tickets. Normally you would need to have a Parking Enforcement Officer remember a 6-8 digit alphanumberical code of a dozen or more "scofflaw" level violators. The LPR system hopefully helps with this.

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Sean Patton
Apr 09, 2018

I deployed an LPR system at a private University (which also had a medical center on campus), and have met with and seen many "private" parking authorities with LPR systems.

When I see a vehicle like that with LPR cameras on it I'm pretty sure they're just looking for cars due to be repossessed by a bank. They drive around reading plates, which checks that against a database, then they call back to an office for a tow truck, who comes and removes the vehicle.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Apr 09, 2018

Actually, my impression of the car and driver was exactly what you describe... it's repo work - random drive by.

I will add that this happened the morning after my first night at this hotel - and I was in the same spot the next two mornings and never saw the same car again.

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Sean Patton
Apr 09, 2018

This is from an old story, but I've seen this similar story a few times at least: Repo LPR Building Selling Data

Not from that story, but the one I've heard from police officers: These companies read all the plates in an area once a month (targeting areas of higher risk loans), building a database of plate locations, then if you eventually become delinquent in payments, they don't even have to look for you, they know where you park at work every day.

Being a private company, operating on public property, it's out of my base of knowledge if there's anything in US laws that would limit anything they collect, maybe someone here like Mr. Silva would know.

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Michael Silva
Apr 10, 2018
Silva Consultants

I don't know the legality of this type of data gathering. The old rule of thumb was that if a person could see something when legally walking or driving by, capturing this same information by photo or video was perfectly legal. So if I could see the license plates when walking through the parking lot, taking photos of these same license plates would be OK. 

Not sure what the implications of reading this data and then placing it in a huge central database is. I'm guessing that this is one of the areas where the law has not caught up with technology.

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Sergio Guzman
Jul 31, 2019
Pine Crest School • IPVMU Certified

It's used by Insurance Companies to collect data on how far you're going, too.

U
Undisclosed #2
Jul 31, 2019

The cameras are hard to make out, it's hard to tell if they are Genetec SharpVs or SharpXs.

  https://www.genetec.com/solutions/industries/parking-enforcement

U
Undisclosed #1
Jul 31, 2019

what does knowing who made the LPR cameras on that Toyota have to do with how they are being used?

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