Subscriber Discussion

No Work, Send Techs Home With No Pay?

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Ari Erenthal
Jan 11, 2017

Many integrators have slow days or slow weeks with no work. Do you send your techs home? If so, do you pay them? Techs, have you ever been sent home with no pay? 

Inside of IPVM, we have had a debate about this. On the one hand, integrators may need to do this to stay afloat. On the other hand, you run the risk of losing a good technician. What do you think? 

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Ari Erenthal
Jan 11, 2017

I had one boss who made me clean all his tools and sharpen all his drill bits on slow days. I used to hate it, until I got a job with a guy who just sent us home on slow days. Then I learned to appreciate him. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 11, 2017

Being small, I struggle with this and worry about losing good people.  Over the Christmas holidays everyone was off due to no work.  I was afraid I would come back to no crew.  (As a small business I've only really been "full-time" for the last year when I landed a large contract.)  I've been upfront with my techs from the get-go because I'm small enough that I can be.  I let them know that wasted time and material results in less money to keep them around.  So they have become very conscientious and pro-active about waste.  Now instead of tossing short cable / coax pieces, they will save in the event they need to make a patch cable or a short run.  I'm grateful that they understand what we are trying to build and what we are building, ultimately revolves around them being employed.  Communicating, being open and honest with them seems to work.  I know they need to feed their families and keep a roof over their head so I let them know that they need to do what is most important to them, i.e., find full /part time work, to keep them going.  They understand I'm on their side even if it is my business.

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Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jan 11, 2017

We're a small outfit as well. We have two "regular" techs and another that we sometimes call on when things get busy.

We don't go in to the office every morning, but are dispatched from home, so I don't get "sent home" if it's slow; I simply don't go anywhere. We get paid hourly only when we actually work, but fortunately, I can do a lot of my work remotely, and there's often some little maintenance or update or check-up tasks I can use to fill out my timesheet.

Our part-time tech also does other contract work, so he manages to keep himself fairly steadily employed as well, and can still make time to come in when we need him.

We've tried to go UI1's route of reusing short cable bits and other little cost-saving methods, but being paid hourly, it typically ends up costing more for the tech's time to do that, than you're saving on small bits of cable; pre-made patch cables are so cheap, it costs less to just buy a big bag of them, than the cable and terminations are worth separately, never mind someone's time to assemble them. We'll keep some off-cuts around for those times when a custom patch cable or short run is needed, but that's about it.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jan 11, 2017

A long time ago when I was a partner in a small security dealer we had an employee that we would have do menial tasks, including mowing the owners lawn who was offended.  That was until he was told he was one of the most expensive gardeners.  

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Armando Perez
Jan 11, 2017
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Ultimately if there is no work, there is no work. However, we do a few things to combat this. Our techs get a quarterly pay bump for completing a certain amount of training in the previous quarter. no work today? Better get busy finding some real training. Generally we know a week or two ahead of time so we can give them a heads up. We pay any fees or tuition associated with it and if the only option is during the day then we pay for their time. We also dont have dedicated service techs, we try to make sure everyone knows enough to fix issues and run service calls. We do a few other things and luckily, we dont often have to send guys home for the day or week. Which Im grateful for considering our size it should happen much more often. At the end of the day, as the owner, Ive made a commitment to keep these guys employed, so I do my best to make sure that happens. Im not going to let my kids go hungry, but I'll make the prudent and reasonable sacrifices necessary.

I would rather the guys use the time to get better at what they do than to mow my lawn or wash a vehicle. So if there is no training, we will put them in the build room for a few hours learning something new. If they do go home, we are conscious of that and dont complain about reasonable overtime the following week. We also give them 10 PTO days a year and everyone gets the last week of the year off paid at their average hours per day for the preceeding 12 months.

Its definitely not easy and that first payroll of the year is a mother, but they seem to appreciate it and I think they understand it doesnt just happen and it has to be planned and compromises have to be made to make that kind of stuff happen. 

The real thing to remember here is that if your guys dont have work, its the sales departments fault. ;)

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Luis Carmona
Jan 12, 2017
Geutebruck USA • IPVMU Certified

When we have a new sales person come on, as the technology manager I often send them a welcome email. I point out that while sometimes sales people may be joked about, there would be nothing backing our paychecks if it weren't for sales. In one way it acknowledges the important role sales people play, but also underscores their responsibilities.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Jan 12, 2017

It's a tough call, but if the choice is stay afloat or sink the answer is obvious.  If the choice is between taking a reasonable margin hit and losing key technicians I would lean towards keeping the technicians.  There is always training or other items to keep them busy.

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Robert Baxter
Jan 12, 2017

I sympathize with the decsions some small contractors have to deal with. One thing we have learned when work is light is not to spread the work around but rather keep a majority of the techs busy and concentrate the shortage of work with a small group (usually the least versatile or least productive or least senior). Techs want and feel safe when they are productive. When everyone is feeling the pain of short of work the rumor mill gets going and no good deed goes unpunished.

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Undisclosed Integrator #6
Jan 13, 2017

I tend to agree with your method. Carrying everybody does nothing more than drain the coffers, weaken the company and eventually people will have to be laid off anyway. Business is business. I used to be incredibly soft-hearted regarding "keeping my guys busy", and it got me into a deep financial hole. Never again. If the work is that up-and-down, keep only the personnel you really need, and then develop relationships with subcontractors and temp labor companies until you can get your sales pipe normalized to the point where it justifies another full-time employee. sending somebody home two days out of the week doesn't help anybody..just makes the company look mickey mouse in the eyes of your employees.

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Undisclosed #5
Jan 12, 2017

difficult position to be in. If it were me, and I had absolutely nothing for them to do, then yeah, you have to send them home, otherwise, your throwing money away.  But slow periods are great times to reflect and see where you can diversify your business offerings so this doesnt happen again. Perhaps, if you install CCTV, look into also installing A/V stuff as well. Sure their may be times where you are so swamped that you may not be able to handle all the different types of work, but thats alot better problem to be in then what your in right now.

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Joseph Parker
Jan 12, 2017

This tends to only be an issue for us when large projects get delayed, so I've actually used the "we don't send guys home" line as selling point when hiring.  What we do:

1.  Are your vans spotless?

2.  Time entry and follow ups 100%?  Inventory up to date?

3.  Training

4.  Shop projects/testing/demos

5.  Do you want to do yard work?

I'll also call clients and offer discounts to close small projects, or even intentionally low ball a job at cost to keep them busy.  

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Luis Carmona
Jan 12, 2017
Geutebruck USA • IPVMU Certified

Maybe use them as telemarketers, making some cold calls to generate warm leads for whoever does the real sales. Give them a little commission opportunity. You need to be in a position where installs can't be scheduled until a week out or more because you are so busy. One thing I learned in this business is you have to plant the seeds of success today to reap the rewards tomorrow.

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Greg Austin
Jan 16, 2017

We've not had many slow days in the last several years, but what I used to do was to print up some flyers and have the techs paper the town.  Turn everyone into short-term salespeople...

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Rick Hall
Jan 17, 2017

Follow up. Follow up. Follow up. 

Existing Clients appreciate the attention and you can nearly guarantee a couple of service calls after speaking with them.

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Steven Ballard
Jan 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

This is my 24th year and to date I have not had to send techs home without pay.  For the past 6 years I have paid techs based on a 48 hour work week.  The idea was if things slowed down I could just reduce their hours to 40.  This allows me to have less technicians and them to make a better salary.  It is expensive when you look at it on paper but it has been very successful for my company.  To date I have not had to reduce their hours.

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Armando Perez
Jan 17, 2017
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Steven, so in this structure, do you just average out the cost of overtime into your standard COGS for labor?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jan 18, 2017

Yes. 

If he/she stars the day, they are assured 4 hours.  We do not price our labor to include carrying unbillable hours.  Thus , we cannot afford down time pay.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Jun 27, 2019

This is a great discussion. These are aspects of the business that I would otherwise not be exposed to.

I work at a very large manufacturing company and if we slow down we simply layoff.

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David Coughlin
Jul 01, 2019
Coughlin Security & Legal Advisers

While I've served as a GM for a Fire and Security branch of an international integrator with utilization goals, I've never had to make the decision to send people home (or not call them for a work). However, with much of my career in sales, not having enough work for techs is one of my fears that drives me to sell.

One hedge against this is recurring revenue. Whether it's scheduled inspections or simple maintenance agreements, tech visits to customers when there is down time will help with client and tech retention...and it will probably lead to sales.

I agree with a poster above about it being the fault of sales if there isn't enough work. While it's a bit more complicated (with factors such as scheduling, training, etc), depending on consistent sales is the bottom line.

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Undisclosed Integrator #9
Jul 03, 2019

We struggle with this as well, being a smaller shop. We have 3 techs that we have full time work for, that have been with us for years and therefore have vacation days when times get slow. We usually need 1 to 3 more techs when we get busy. We usually have a 'helper' tech we use as needed or use Outsource Telecom when desperate for more techs. Our 4th tech position is a turnstile position. We hire someone when we're busy, they work with us for a year or 2, then quit because they find a more stable union job. We're basically a stepping stone for them. It's tough for us always having to re-hire.

I think companies in our position need to find the sweet spot for the amount of techs they'll always need, and give them the hours to keep them. Beyond that, be on the lookout for guys that don't mind working here or there.

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Luis Carmona
Jul 03, 2019
Geutebruck USA • IPVMU Certified

There's no easy solution to that problem. One carrot you may be able to offer as a small company is that while pay may be low and unsteady (for your less senior techs), is on the job training and learning opportunities. A value add, per se, to the job. If you find the right people, they'll stay a little longer before they opt for a higher paying job and hopefully be more proficient.

Another idea is sign them up for some "gig" apps like TaskRabbit or similar services. It wouldn't be for company profit, just to cover expenses in between regular jobs.

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